10x4s way too easy to attain

SCWT345 · March 2011

Alright, I understand that we have been waiting on a breeding kennel update for years. but now that it's here, 10s are just WAY too easy to attain. I've never seen such a large influx of new 10x4s on the market. I understand that making the game easier is good for the most part, but this seems to be a bit excessive. Almost like it's dumbed down, and I don't like it when something is dumbed down. I am not a stupid person. I have to admit that I think making breeding the perfect dog easy was a mistake. Getting to perfection should take a lot longer than one line and a few generations.

Minx · March 2011

The dogs are in no way made perfect. Instead of working on 10x4's why dont you work on breeding dogs that excel in a certain event or something like that?

BabyBean13 · March 2011

I personally still find it a bit difficult sometimes to get to 10x4. It all depends on the stats of the imports, some are far lower than others, some are higher. But I don't mind 10x4s being easier to achieve. As the above post suggests, you could improve stats towards a specific event. A lot of people are on a birth strength craze now. And unforntunately, many people are now trying to work with Greyhounds >.> But getting into that is a whole other story. My main thing is improving the stats of gifty colors I obtain. But I keep the #oak the same by changing the color of the parent. I'm always working on different projects with my own dogs. It's honestly quite weird that I never run out of things to do. Never ends! Just stinks I lack the drive to get it done so I usually slack on things. Or when I do wanna accomplish something, no one's on to help me train :roll: That or I refuse to pay their prices so I gotta wait around. I do a lot of training for myself. *yawns* Anywho. I'm tired and need to continue on with accepting your bids for you

SCWT345 · March 2011

VampireVenom wrote:

The dogs are in no way made perfect. Instead of working on 10x4's why dont you work on breeding dogs that excel in a certain event or something like that?

You completely missed the point I'm trying to make. There is no sense of the OMG LOOK WHAT I DID FINALLY! accomplishment because of the ease of 10x4s. Of course anyone could pick one stat to focus on and breed and line breed and cross breed to achieve that number. I am talking about 10s; They've been cheapened by this change. 10x4s are considered perfect. So yeah, they are being made perfect but perfection should be hard to get to because in reality there is no such thing. Why make perfect easy when it's not? The reason I am probably in the minority on this point is because making 10x4s is a good way to make money on this game. I personally used to breed for the achievement. In fact I've rarely if ever sold any of my 10's. But now everyone seems to have a new 10x4 or some breed or another, there are so many auctions now for these dogs. Answer me honestly, when have you ever seen this many different 10's in the marketplace? 10s were meant to be special, a testament to planning, proper breeding and training, and they just aren't anymore.

LaLa_Laru · March 2011

It WAS extremely easy for me to breed 10x4 shepherd breeds. But it is turning out to be VERY HARD for me to breed 10x4s with my bully breeds. I got up to the first 9x4s of a bully breed and then couldn't reach 10x4s...well not yet atleast. Certain breeds are easier then others. I definitely will still have that OMG LOOK WHAT I DID mentality when I breed the first 10x4s of the breed I'am currently working on...because it IS hard. If the game got harder in general reaching the first 10x4s of certain breeds will be ridiculously challenging, and I don't think that's neccessary...yet I agree with you. There shouldn't be so many 10s out there. The problem is not only because they're sometimes easy to reach, but because once they are reached people (trying to make a quick buck) think it's ok to breed them OVER AND OVER AND OVER again until they just aren't rare anymore. Like the Greyhound, Border Collie, and Doberman (just naming a few)..the amount of 10s for these breeds are insane. I don't know where I stand on this one. How about after I get to 10x4s on this breed the game can get harder?? LOL..

KittKattize · March 2011

Don't get me started on my Black and Tan Coonhounds... I had such a hard time trying to get them to 10x4s. Dobermans are too easy, I had 10's by the 3rd generation. Some breeds are still difficult. The breeds I'm working on now are being a pest... Does that mean I won't have the same "Wow! Lookie what I did!"? No, I'll still have that and I will tell all the people I know. There is one thing I agree on. 10x4s are cheap now. They're everywhere and everyone wants them now.

Minx · March 2011

SCWT345 wrote:

VampireVenom wrote:

The dogs are in no way made perfect. Instead of working on 10x4's why dont you work on breeding dogs that excel in a certain event or something like that?

 You completely missed the point I'm trying to make. There is no sense of the OMG LOOK WHAT I DID FINALLY! accomplishment because of the ease of 10x4s. Of course anyone could pick one stat to focus on and breed and line breed and cross breed to achieve that number. I am talking about 10s; They've been cheapened by this change. 10x4s are considered perfect. So yeah, they are being made perfect but perfection should be hard to get to because in reality there is no such thing. Why make perfect easy when it's not? The reason I am probably in the minority on this point is because making 10x4s is a good way to make money on this game. I personally used to breed for the achievement. In fact I've rarely if ever sold any of my 10's. But now everyone seems to have a new 10x4 or some breed or another, there are so many auctions now for these dogs. Answer me honestly, when have you ever seen this many different 10's in the marketplace? 10s were meant to be special, a testament to planning, proper breeding and training, and they just aren't anymore.

And you completely missed what i was saying. The "Omg look" for 10x4s may be gone but did you ever think there may be a "omg look" for an international showdog that you bred to be the best? There is nothing cheap about these dogs and they have the same exact result as 10x4's with people. Yes 10x4's have been cheapened but these things happen. Gifties used to be the "omg look" until everybody started getting them. Were just going to have to move on fro 10x4's like we did gifties. 10x4's ARENT considered perfect. If you have 2 10x4's competing in an event only ONE will win. ONE has to be better than the other and a lot of times that dog that wins INST even a 10x4. Perfection is getting a dog capped in ALL STATS. This dog will be a 10x4 but this dog will ALSO be one that has been bred more and more to acheieve this stat capped area. Why dont you show the dogs you breed for money? I work with borders and aussies *which have been bred to improve stats even though they are 10x4* and i make an upwards of a million a week just from showing 4 herders. How many upped showborn dogs do you see in the market? None. Nobody has even noticed that these dogs are worth WAY more than gifties of being able to say "i own a 10x4." Since when were 10x4's meant to be special? Theyre just dogs with stats like the rest of everyone elses. A real testament to breeding is how well we preform. EVERYTHING VP is about is making good showdogs! Stats in general is what everyone on VP wants. Why? Because the better a dog's stats the more likely they will be to place high in a show! Im not trying to be rude or anything and i hope you didnt take it that way.

Kazuko · March 2011

It's taken 32 imports and I still don't have 10x4s with my Personal Breed, that I helped design the stats for. xD It's not as easy as it sounds.

itsjustheidy · March 2011

I agree with pretty much everyone.. Try working on different breeds and you will find its extremely difficult to breed some.. ive given up on my polish tatras because even breeding a male and female with 99-100 hyper (fully groomed to 217) i still cant get a 10x4 in the litter.. labs too were extremely difficult.. i bred a pair with 99+ hyper each fully groomed and only got one 10x4 pup out of about 10 breedings.. and as someone else mentioned, bulldog breeds are too extremely difficulty. ive been stuck at 99 hyper on my american bullies for months down (as ive pushed them to the side)

SCWT345 · March 2011

VampireVenom wrote:

And you completely missed what i was saying. The "Omg look" for 10x4s may be gone but did you ever think there may be a "omg look" for an international showdog that you bred to be the best?

Done it several times over.

VampireVenom wrote:

Yes 10x4's have been cheapened but these things happen.

That is my point, but why should we take the oh well, these things happen with this game? Everything gets cheapened and the interest and opportunities to do things gradually either gets taken away or it's made so easy that everyone can get there without trying. Highest aggro was attained by Rayne years ago until some little kid decided that all of her hard work gave her an advantage, so aggro was capped. Loyalty was capped because of the ridiculous ages put on some of these dogs including personal breeds. Why not cap all of the stats then? I mean if someone has an edge, someone else is going to get upset about it. Capping was a huge mistake in this game. Allowing these dogs to have ages upwards of 20 years is a mistake. Personally I'm a loyalty freak and I loved having a normal breed with 1k loyalty at 12 years for breeding. But because loyalty supposedly gave an advantage, it was capped and another bit of enjoyment was taken away

VampireVenom wrote:

Gifties used to be the "omg look" until everybody started getting them. Were just going to have to move on fro 10x4's like we did gifties.

Making colors doesn't take work, just takes money. I understand a lot of breeds are hard to get a 10 on. I've made several 10 breeds since I've been here, and every time it was rather difficult. I had a breed that couldn't get past 8x4 in several generations and lines. It frustrated the crap out of me, but it also made me want to keep going with them. After the change I did a test breeding and got my 9x4 and lost all interest in finishing them up.

VampireVenom wrote:

10x4's ARENT considered perfect.

Umm, yeah they are. You can't get a 10x5 or an 11x4 and a 10x3 to most is considered subpar, though the potential for a 10x4 is there. 10x4s are the goal for a ton of people, it is perfection.

VampireVenom wrote:

If you have 2 10x4's competing in an event only ONE will win. ONE has to be better than the other and a lot of times that dog that wins INST even a 10x4. Perfection is getting a dog capped in ALL STATS. This dog will be a 10x4 but this dog will ALSO be one that has been bred more and more to acheieve this stat capped area.

I don't know how competition came into this, but having only one winner is the point of competition.

VampireVenom wrote:

Why dont you show the dogs you breed for money? I work with borders and aussies *which have been bred to improve stats even though they are 10x4* and i make an upwards of a million a week just from showing 4 herders. How many upped showborn dogs do you see in the market? None. Nobody has even noticed that these dogs are worth WAY more than gifties of being able to say "i own a 10x4."

I've made millions upon millions of VPC with eventers, and again, I have no clue why eventing has come into this topic. I also have no idea what an upped showborn dog is. A show dog is merely a dog with high courage and adaptability

VampireVenom wrote:

Since when were 10x4's meant to be special?

Since the very beginning of the game...

VampireVenom wrote:

EVERYTHING VP is about is making good showdogs! Stats in general is what everyone on VP wants. Why? Because the better a dog's stats the more likely they will be to place high in a show!

Last time I checked, eventing has dwindled in entrants and in payout. Also last time I checked, high Courage and adaptability dogs were winning the majority of the time regardless of stats or stars. So honestly very little revolves around eventing anymore. It does for you, but not for a lot of people.

VampireVenom wrote:

Im not trying to be rude or anything and i hope you didnt take it that way.

I didn't, we just disagree on this point. Also for all of the other posters. I've dabbled in everything when it comes to VP. I've bred for certain very specific stats, evented many many many dogs in many different events and was very successful during a time when people actually entered events regularly. I know 10x4's aren't the only things to aim for when breeding, but I enjoy that particular challenge, just as I enjoyed trying to get the highest loyalty before loyalty was capped. All I am trying to say with this post is that making things easier and therefore cheaper, it makes the VP experience cheaper. Also when I say that 10's are easier, I do understand that not all breed are easy, it is a blanket statement and of course there are going to be exceptions so don't take offence if you happen to have a difficult breed.

CallyKats Dachshunds · March 2011

Just wanted to point something out... The sponsor breeding advantage that was finally put into place, was suppose to be working for most likely before you'd even heard of VP. Nef had finally found out it wasn't working and either her or Ari/Nate fixed it. It was meant to be like that in the first place; from my understanding. I'm not going to go search for the post I read this on, but it should be there somewhere, possibly on the old forum. One other point: like Vampy has already stated-there's no reason to get uptight about some of the breeds getting to 10x4s easier. The point in actually fixing the advantage was so that the breeds that couldn't possibly get to 10x4s, finally could. It was a flaw, and it's been fixed (supposedly..I'm sure we haven't checked all the breeds yet). Last one, also mentioned by Vampy-maybe if people would start breeding for the stats instead of stars and actually trying to event their dogs for money, we'd have more eventers and dogs entered, eh? If there's nothing there to start with, how are you suppose to end up with something better? (metaphorically speaking) Maybe asking for a change in stat bonuses for events would be a better idea to suggest?

BabyBean13 · March 2011

As long as this doesn't turn into anything full blown, I'm set with what y'all have to say. Between Vampy and Smarty (SCWT), both person's arguments that were made are both strong points and very true. However, Vampy, not everyone competes their dogs. And stats hardly prove to matter, it's more about A/C now when it comes to what are considered "good eventing dogs" if it's not one with eventing history. VP has it's ups and downs and everybody's gonna have something to complain about. My fear, personally, is running out of 10x4s to achieve. And that's basically what's intertwined with what Smarty says about 10x4s being easier to attain. What I like about this game is that it's an all around thing that can suffice many different needs. Breeding, training, competing. Goals of 10x4s, A/C, obtaining gifties, creating personal breeds. Making graphics such as layouts, banners, pics, avatars/siggys. If you only focus on one aspect, a lot of times, you'll run out. Whereas being involved in multiple aspects can last a bit longer. But the thing is, Smarty -has- been there, done that. She -does- compete, does breed, does train. What I think you should do, Smarty, is possibly invest in new ideas. Find a new joy if at all possible. Perhaps take a break from VP for a while? I've seen this statement all the time from people coming back from breaks -that they need to relearn VP. VP is changing constantly with people's focusses. There's always something new going on. Whether it's inflation of prices, people leaving, new ways to do things, more breeds created.. Idk. Vampy's point though, I believe, is that 10x4s aren't everything. And I know you know that already, but your points were strong to the point where it may have been thought that's your main or only focus. This is all just my opinion though, so I'm hoping no one takes anything the wrong way. Just basically trying to explain both sides better

If it's not, I shall shut up and leave it be XD But anywho. admin1 and admin2 are trying to figure out how to revamp VP so hopefully there'll be more for you to do. Until then, I'm not quite sure how to help out.

SCWT345 · March 2011

I just want to give an example: Import Gen of Sealyham Terriers produced 3-4x4s with 95.5 hyper 1st Gen of Sealyham Terriers produced 8-9x4 with 109 hyper 2nd Gen of Sealyham Terriers produced an entire litter of 10x4 puppies. I've bred dogs with similar stats and it took two lines to MAYBE get one 10x4. (Bedlington Terriers, Mini Bull Terriers) and thats generally all I got, was only one 10x4 from two lines of five pairs (ie. 100 dogs)

Berton · March 2011

As many said it depends on the breed. I think I got 10x4 witchys on the 5/6th gen and I finished my kerry line with a 9x4 99.5 hyper dog. It would if I didn't decided to inbreed take me maybe 8 more imports if I was lucky. I think they are hard, you go through the trouble. And I still find its worth noting, more for the first of the breed but still. And it's the players that made getting a 10x4 what it is. When I first joined 10x4 weren't a thing, people didn't care, but then after a year x4s became a thing... The players made getting a 10x4 special. Not nef... WE made it special.

Mr. Rotten Treats · March 2011

Strongly Disagree with this. The new breeding feature is great for new line creaters and breeding kennels. >:/ It was to hard and to time consuming before hand to train a bunch of imports and breed over and over and over again. If you really had that much time in the past to create 10x4's..... someone. needs. a. life. Don't get me wrong, it gave those with the time even more interest, cash and respect.... but I'm still loving the new breeding enhancement. My breeding kennel has actually made some cash with more players interested in the stat boost. Mind you it's produced great breeds and stats for the market.

BabyBean13 · March 2011

Mr. Rotten Treats wrote:

If you really had that much time in the past to create 10x4's..... someone. needs. a. life.

K, I respect your opinion in the rest of the message, however..Not what I just quoted. That's just plain rude. Whether or not Smarty was my friend, I'd still be calling this out.

Not kool.

PurpleChicken · March 2011

vp is its own little city with its own little economy. Stock markets crash and go up, and in a way I have to say I kind of like it! This is a hard debate to pick sides. Personally I think they where way to hard to get in the past but are to easy now. Hophelly in the future we'll find a happy medium. I think a big issue is the fear of running out of things, and goals. As much as I hate to say it, because i love vp, it tends to get boring from time to time. I think we can all agree that we love the changes and updates but those are to enhance mobilty around the site, and make it easyr to play, but there hasnt been a change in gameplay in... awhile /: Thats what we need. Not an improvment to something we have- but something completly new. Like a "trophey case" or something.Not the best idea, but its just an example.

Mr. Rotten Treats · March 2011

BabyBean13 wrote:

Mr. Rotten Treats wrote:

If you really had that much time in the past to create 10x4's..... someone. needs. a. life.

 K, I respect your opinion in the rest of the message, however..Not what I just quoted. That's just plain rude. Whether or not Smarty was my friend, I'd still be calling this out. Not kool.

That wasn't directed in a rude manner, and if you honestly think that was quote was completly affensive.. we'll I shouldnt have even replied back. I don't know what else I could say with out being "rude" so I'll leave this at that.

HWRD2 · March 2011

I have to say that I both agree and disagree with you Smartah. I have always been big into 10x4s. And truthfully it is crazy with all the 10x4s that are now out but I also love it. I think it is kinda fun to try and get them and yes some are somewhat easy to get but as stated they are also those that are a pain in the butt. Like my cerbies. Before the update I worked on them for 2 years and only got up to 7x4 at the end of a 164 line. I wanted to scream. Now though I am almost to 10x4 at the end of a 16 line. It still takes a lot of work but makes it less frustrating. I still feel proud when I get the first 10x4 of a breed though I do admit that on some breeds its too easy. But to make the harder ones a little easier makes it totally worth it in my opinion.

Howdy, Stranger!

10x4s way too easy to attain

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