Mutts Not Neutered!

NitaraDahmpiel · June 2006

You're going to just keep shooting it down aren't you. What purpose do mutts serve, other than as a "logical" end to a mistaken breeding? Why not give them a purpose, why does this idea piss people off so much...

Jinxx · June 2006

I don't mind giving mutts names like working mix or shepherd mix but I hate the idea of getting pure out of crossbreds. If something like that was implemented then it would need to be like 50 generations to get a 'pure' bred dog. I can't stand the crossbreeding on VHR.

NitaraDahmpiel · June 2006

..and if the getting a pure bred from a hybrid were left out... would it be suitable then or is it still a dead idea...

SquallXIII · June 2006

It's not the entire idea pissing people off it's purebreds out of mixed dogs that's causing problems. You like the crossbreeding on VHR. Fine. It should stay on VHR. A lot of us came to VP because it was DIFFERENT than VHR, and every time a fix is added to make it more like VHR I wonder why even have different games at all if they're going to be exactly the same except for a few minor word changes to indicate different animals. If they 'have' to make purebreds make them make NEW breeds or purebred mixes, not purebreds of dogs where purebred means no outcrossing to other breeds.

Jinxx · June 2006

Nitara Dahmpiel wrote:

..and if the getting a pure bred from a hybrid were left out... would it be suitable then or is it still a dead idea...

If getting pure as an end result is left out then it's a suitable idea.

AmberIsabellD · June 2006

************IMPORTANT READ************** I am going to make a suggestion about this on the suggestion board with a Poll. So please stop responding here and now respond there. It will be called: Mutts not neutered!

NitaraDahmpiel · June 2006

I moved it, it just makes it easier if this is that thread.

AmberIsabellD · June 2006

Thank you Nitara!

Brooke2 · June 2006

Nitara Dahmpiel wrote:

You're going to just keep shooting it down aren't you. What purpose do mutts serve, other than as a "logical" end to a mistaken breeding? Why not give them a purpose, why does this idea piss people off so much...

I think its the fact that it will make the irresponsible breeders (puppy mills and new players) more irresponsible that is making people mad. I have nothing against which dogs people breed together as long as the end result is a dog that will be worth having. Instead there are allot of people that are un-educated breeding dogs together willy nilly because they think they can sell them and have no idea about how you can produce some quality puppies if you put the work in to the dogs. Maybe there can be a system implemented that you cant breed dogs unless the stats are at a certain level, i know its not a realistic suggestion but it will prevent bad statted puppies clogging up the systems. I personally think its a great idea to give the mutts a certain grade, if it will keep some people happy. You cant please everyone though.

NitaraDahmpiel · June 2006

As well as infringe on a players right to play how they want, Nefertete will never put in something like that. She feels we have to gently encourage players into training and breeding responsibly

, which is never going to happen. People are going to play how they want, not everyone takes this game so seriously as to meticulously train their dogs and selectively breeding the. Some people just use this site to kill time and don't really care about screwing up a population of dogs with low statted stock.

SCWT345 · June 2006

Nitara Dahmpiel wrote:

Smarteh, do you have dyed dogs?

Nitty, My having dyed dogs is not the issue here. Making it so that mutts are breedable is. I think the topic should stay on mutts and not who is a dye collector.

Nitara Dahmpiel wrote:

It's being shot down viciously so unless there's some major support for this out there somewhere and people let me know I guess it's just not gonna happen...

I have not seen one vicious remark on this forum. We are just giving you our opinions like you asked for. my opinion is very clear as is yours. Why should one opinion be better than the other? The are just opinions

Koshi wrote:

 Oh! And I most certainly disagree with you SCWT345, it is indeed possible to get a pure breed out of a mutt!

I thought that in order to be a purebred dog, the lines had to be pure ie. lab to lab or shepherd to shepherd. If I knew I could get an Afghan Hound from a mixed breed dog, by doG I would breed me a Afghan Hound. Sorry, it doesn't work that way, think of it this way, you can make catsup from tomatoes, but can you make tomatoes from catsup? I think the answer is no.

Rebel912 · June 2006

Like a few other people, I wouldnt mind this idea if it werent for getting purebreeds out of mixes. I think the only way that should be possible is if the hybrid is farther than 4 generations back in the pedigree. ((IRL, dogs can be registered as purebred after 6 generations of consistant breeding. Im not sure what registry this is or the details, I just remember reading it. In the same article, a breeder was breeding corgis to boxers in order to achieve a natural bobtail and after 6 generations his dogs could be registered and shown in conformation.)) Maybe Im not fully understanding the whole grading thing... :? Smarty, I believe Nitty is just trying to point out that saying this idea is unrealistic while collecting dyed dogs is hypocritical... and I agree.

SquallXIII · June 2006

He must've been registering it in something besides the AKC then. AKC doesn't allow descendents of unregistered litters to be registered, and the dogs have to be purebred to be registered. As for dyed dogs being unrealistic..like Jinxx said, anyone can go out and paint their dog pink if they wanted to. I've seen REAL pink poodles...and I've seen dogs 'dressed up' in costumes. That's what dyes are. What you can't do is breed two dogs that are not the same breed and end up eventually registering them in the AKC. Other registries may have different rules (I'm guessing the ones AKC won't allow dogs from to be registered in theirs). Purebred means bred purely from only lines of that breed. This idea isn't bad as long as mixed couldn't make purebred dogs. Why not make an elite class of mixes instead? Stop at AAA hybrids and make them a goal to be attained.

SquallXIII · June 2006

Or alternatively, You could have them make a purebred with a notation that it came from mixed lines. Such as a purebred Labrador would be Labrador Retriever, and one from mixed lines would be 'Labrador Retriever 'mixed descent' or something. But there would definitely need to be something that set apart 'purebreds' that are actually PURE BRED and purebreds that were created from a mixed hodgepodge of whatever dogs were laying around at the time.

SCWT345 · June 2006

I like Squalls suggestion on stopping at the AAA hybrid, but still having it be a hybrid, not a purebred. Though I still prefer to leave mutts as they are, I wouldn't be as adverse to an elite hybrid idea. it's the purebreds from mutts that irks me, I don't think that should be allowed. I am a purebred fancier, I prefer purebreds over mutts (I like to call them cross breeds) and I still don't feel that cross breeds should be bred, but if people are conciously trying to imporve that and not have it as a fad breed or designer breed, then whatever. I am just afraid that in addition to all of the untrained cross breeds on VP, we will be adding another league of crosses that will be eventually over produced and under trained.

NitaraDahmpiel · June 2006

SCWT345 wrote:

 

Nitara Dahmpiel wrote:

It's being shot down viciously so unless there's some major support for this out there somewhere and people let me know I guess it's just not gonna happen...

 I have not seen one vicious remark on this forum. We are just giving you our opinions like you asked for. my opinion is very clear as is yours. Why should one opinion be better than the other? The are just opinions

Not all comments on the issue were stated here.

TashaWasha · June 2006

SCWT345 wrote:

Koshi wrote:

 Oh! And I most certainly disagree with you SCWT345, it is indeed possible to get a pure breed out of a mutt!

 I thought that in order to be a purebred dog, the lines had to be pure ie. lab to lab or shepherd to shepherd. If I knew I could get an Afghan Hound from a mixed breed dog, by doG I would breed me a Afghan Hound. Sorry, it doesn't work that way, think of it this way, you can make catsup from tomatoes, but can you make tomatoes from catsup? I think the answer is no.

Koshi wrote:

Oh! And I most certainly disagree with you SCWT345, it is indeed possible to get a pure breed out of a mutt! When dealing with vp, anything is possible! XP

I think you accidently left that part out.

It's a game, everything doesn't have to make sense in a game, who's ever heard of a Wolf eventing in a fly ball team? Or an African Wild dog Racing? Better yet, have you actually ever seen someone dye a Fox or Wolf in real life? Hm...how about an African Wild dog? (I wonder if they do that...I wouldn't put it past us XD) :? My point is, once again, this is a game that makes is so that anything is possible. Though I am starting to see what you all mean about the population of lowly stated dogs rising...hum...not a good thing. :? I like WoS's Idea though, if we are able to make mutts breedable. Making it so that people will know that they aren't pure.

NitaraDahmpiel · June 2006

I'd rather just cut that whole purebred crap out, if it can't be done all the way I see no point in half-assing it.

Goldy · June 2006

I think Nitara is right How do you think all the breeds that are around now came about? uhh that would be thanks to breeding MUTTS! I don't agree with designer dogs either, but we can't say just because it isn't 500 years in the past, all the dogs that are "pure-breds" now should be the only ones considered that. New breeds are accepted into the AKC quite a bit ^^ "Breeds" are just "mutts" anyway. I wouldn't agree with breeding labXshepard=lab..that just doesn't make sense. but mutts shouldn't be neutered if this game is to be realistic.

TashaWasha · June 2006

That's how I feel about non-"pure" bred dogs, Paranoid Thoughts. But I was trying to think of a way to make everybody happy (stupid Tasha!) and WoS's idea seemed the simplest way. Ah well, I don't think anyone has to worry about this going through.

SCWTII · June 2006

You cannot control the behaviour of players. People who breed high quality purebreds can and will breed quality mutts. People who breed untrained, low stat dogs will go right on breeding them, whether they are mutts or purebred. I just bred my first litter of mutts, just to see what would happen. I bred a very high statted and fully trained and winning Afghan to a fully trained, high statted, winning Greyhound and had a lovely litter of 7x4 mutts that I can't breed. I kept the four best to show as a flyball team and released the rest without even trying to sell them. Now - in many countries this cross would have produced a dog called a "Lurcher" which is more a type than a breed - a greyhound type dog outcrossed with another breed for more strength, or a longer coat, or just so the mutt pups can be sold cheaper than a purebred greyhound puppy bred to race, making a very high quality sight hound hunting dog available to the general population. Yes, on VPs we have Lurchers as a breed. I thought that was pretty cool when I saw it. Now, I wouldn't mind being able to breed these mutts. If I could, and if they do as well as I hope racing and in flyball and agility, I might like to have bred them back to a greyhound for maybe even a better mutt. And I would do the same - keep the pups I want, release the others, unless someone had actually messaged me that they wanted a puppy or something. The bottom line is people who breed responsibly will breed responsibly. People who don't, don't. What if they happen to like their low statted dogs? Whatever makes them happy, leave them alone to do as they wish. If their pups don't sell, they'll give up or at least not breed again. The "elite" players of this game need to get a grip on the idea that they cannot force everyone who plays to play their way. Not everyone has the same goals and the same idea of what is fun. It's a game - relax, have fun, stop trying to control everyone else and just play your own game. You will have more fun and the rest of us will, too.

Ravette · June 2006

I like the idea of doing the AAA Working ect but I don't really agree with them being able to breed back into purebreds. It took generations to make a "breed" not just a couple crosses AKC Rules: "What if one (or both) of the parents of my litter is not AKC registered? Chapter 3, Section 4 of the AKC Rules Applying to Registration and Discipline states: "No individual dog from a litter whelped in the United States of America of which both parents are registered with The American Kennel Club shall be eligible for registration unless the litter has first been registered by the person who owned the dam at the time of whelping, or by the lessee if the dam was leased at the time of whelping, and, further, that an application to register such litter is filed with The American Kennel Club no later than six (6) months from the date of whelping of the litter." A litter is eligible for registration: If it is the result of a mating between an AKC registered Sire (male) and an AKC registered Dam (female) of the same breed. Thus, the parents of any dog must be registered and the litter must be registered prior to any individual dog being eligible for registration. If you are interested in participating in AKC events, you may want to consider enrolling your dog in our Indefinite Listing Program ( ILP). " A mixed breed can get an ILP if they look close to one breed but they MUST be fixed MUST. Then they can show in the AKC but not in conformation because conformation shows are in all reality for breeding purposes. I am currently working on getting my grandma's BC mix an ILP because he took on mostly BC features but I would NEVER call him a purebred. No AKC papers = not purebred to FCI (Federation Cynologique Internationale (FCI)) In the dog work the UKC can be an iffy registery and some do not even take the conformation part of it , sadly enough because of how loose the guidelines are for getting registered.

TashaWasha · June 2006

Thank goodness Vp isn't AKC, or that would be a problem. The diffrence between Vp and RL.

But I understand where your coming from. You want to make the game realistic. ...far to late for that...in my opinion...

SCWT345 · June 2006

From what i understand, this whole argument started with the premise that VP wasn't realistic and that was the problem (ie. mutts couldn't be bred is too unrealistic)

AmberIsabellD · June 2006

YAY mutts are now NOT born neutered!! THANK YOU !

Rebel912 · June 2006

AmberIsabellD wrote:

YAY mutts are now NOT born neutered!! THANK YOU !

Really? Already? :? Meh, I wonder how long it will take for people to be advertising designer "breeds" on the bb.

AshleeBrooke · June 2006

Mutts are still born neutered.

I wanted to make sure I hadn't missed something so I went and bought a couple cheap dogs and bred them and the pups came out neutered.

Rebel912 · June 2006

Oh ok, thanks for the facts Zoe.

NitaraDahmpiel · June 2006

Ok, so to get it straight before I put it before Nefertete. Mutts being bred is ok, just don't make it so cross breeding leads to a purebred animal, other than that, it's kosher?

SquallXIII · June 2006

The only problem I had was with the purebred from mutts. Everything else looked ok to me.

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Mutts Not Neutered!

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