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FixMeImNotBroken · July 2012

Haha, so I was really bored today because my shift for work got canceled due to some thunder storms so I was just kinda goofing around with some numbers. Not to mention, I'm a rather stingy person when it comes to VPC and I hate spending money on training my doggies, so I wanted to see the actual price of training. I guess this will just lead to me getting more stingy but oh well, xD Anyway, my findings; 1 year of grooming: 15(per dog; in this case 1) multiplied by 48(4 weeks by 12 months equals 48) = 720 VPC Now on a general basis, trainers charge about 50k per year(although I know a few charge less) so I took the investigation a step further: 12 years of grooming: 720 ( for 1 year) multiplied by 12 = 8640 VPC From this, we actually way over pay for the entire training, none the less one year. It actually costs less to train an entire dog than some trainers actually charge. Now I know this will probably get some complaints because this is how people make their VPC, but if you really think about it, it's nothing more than the other kennels. Every other sponsor is particularly low income compared to training. Just think about it: to breed dogs, it only costs you about 5k if you own both of your dogs. I just thought this was particularly interesting because I found that maybe in a way, the VP economy is waaay inflated with a big gap between novices and sponsors maybe due to this clear fact of just overpaying for training. I don't want anyone complaining that this will kill anyone's business. It's just a fact that I found interesting and not a form to attack trainers in any sense seeing as I do have a training kennel myself. I'm definitely thinking that I'll be spending much less time paying for trainers though! Just wanted to see what everyone else thought about it!

^Oriyana^ · July 2012

Keep in mind you are paying for the person's time though, not simply covering the cost of feeding a dog while training :P

Para Darkwater · July 2012

The reasons you mentioned above is why I groom my own dogs 8) I don't want to pay for something I can do myself and can do cheaper lol Though I also agree with Ori too, it's not just the cost of food, you're paying for the trainers time and effort as well. I don't train for the public yet so I've not set my prices for grooming but these are good things to keep in mind.

Emster · July 2012

And 15k per year-25k per year is good I charge 50k-75kper year

Emster · July 2012

My prices are at so high since I hate grooming :P

FixMeImNotBroken · July 2012

Oriyana wrote:

Keep in mind you are paying for the person's time though, not simply covering the cost of feeding a dog while training :P

I agree with you on that, but still I don't see why it has to be so high but that's only my opinion and I'm not aiming at changing the world just wanted to see what everyone else thought about it xD

Emster · July 2012

It is high tho like I search for trainers just for cheap prices that's why I use afterglow grooming per year is 15k everything is under 30k I think cheapest sponsor around:)

FixMeImNotBroken · July 2012

sweetypie wrote:

It is high tho like I search for trainers just for cheap prices that's why I use afterglow grooming per year is 15k everything is under 30k I think cheapest sponsor around:)

Oh I agree. There are actually several trainers out there that are willing to train for cheap prices. And I love them for it. I'm just too stingy to pay very expensively. :P

^Oriyana^ · July 2012

I generally charge on the upper level because it means I'm taking time from my own lines ;P And if I'm training I'd rather do it for an upgrade or dye. But if someone is stuck while I'm in chat and I'm not busy I'll do it for lower :P

Troglin · July 2012

Anyone could just take a turn though. I'm not trying to jump down your throat, but if I'm spending my time on something, people better be willing to compensate. And if anyone knows me, you'll know I have a habit of charging on the lower scale. I actually have a habit of offering free trainings. I never charge outrageously, though I am sometimes paid well (75-100k/year), which I appreciate. But, we'll play the base cost too, so look at it this way. The average time for a 12 year groom would probably be 20 minutes, at least with the lag anyhow. Okay? Easy enough. Now let's say you are slaving for a goodie dye, which the average is 25-30 grooms. We'll go with the short end of the spectrum, so 25 12 year grooms. That's 500 minutes or 8.3 hours of that person's time. You pay them $9. If they went to work for USA national minimum wage ($7.25 an hour), they are, in fact, grossly underpaid. Now one could raise the fact that it's a game or that the majority of players probably don't have jobs, but that's aside the point. I'm the type of person who would love to pay as low as possible, but I understand that people should get paid well for their time. People who do a fantastic, error free job should get paid well too. I often pay 100-350k per year, so I find it sad when people complain about paying even 50k a year. At any rate, you get what you pay for. There's only a handful of players that I would even dare trust to train, and for this, I pay them well. There are several low-cost trainers that I regret ever having tried, because most of the time my dogs come back significantly lower than what they should be. I'm not saying that's the case for everyone low-cost, because I've had ridiculous experiences with overpriced trainers. That said, price shouldn't be a huge factor if you want your dogs done right.

wetnose101 · July 2012

Anastasia wrote:

Anyone could just take a turn though. I'm not trying to jump down your throat, but if I'm spending my time on something, people better be willing to compensate. And if anyone knows me, you'll know I have a habit of charging on the lower scale. I actually have a habit of offering free trainings. I never charge outrageously, though I am sometimes paid well (75-100k/year), which I appreciate. But, we'll play the base cost too, so look at it this way. The average time for a 12 year groom would probably be 20 minutes, at least with the lag anyhow. Okay? Easy enough. Now let's say you are slaving for a goodie dye, which the average is 25-30 grooms. We'll go with the short end of the spectrum, so 25 12 year grooms. That's 500 minutes or 8.3 hours of that person's time. You pay them $9. If they went to work for USA national minimum wage ($7.25 an hour), they are, in fact, grossly underpaid. Now one could raise the fact that it's a game or that the majority of players probably don't have jobs, but that's aside the point. I'm the type of person who would love to pay as low as possible, but I understand that people should get paid well for their time. People who do a fantastic, error free job should get paid well too. I often pay 100-350k per year, so I find it sad when people complain about paying even 50k a year. At any rate, you get what you pay for. There's only a handful of players that I would even dare trust to train, and for this, I pay them well. There are several low-cost trainers that I regret ever having tried, because most of the time my dogs come back significantly lower than what they should be. I'm not saying that's the case for everyone low-cost, because I've had ridiculous experiences with overpriced trainers. That said, price shouldn't be a huge factor if you want your dogs done right.

Ana has a point there.... -likes-

FlyTM · July 2012

Mmm.. Just as what has been and the first thing that came to my mind, your paying for the person's time sitting their to train your dog not the costs of feeding, I don't see me wanting to waste my time if someone is gonna pay me 20k just to do a long groom, I need my cash for buying these dang gifties and unmade dyes XD. But than again I don't see me wanting to spend 500k-1mill on a rush job, I would have a someone take 20mins over 7mins if it means a dog with better stats. but than again its not always a get what you pay for on VP... Just about everyone on VP is stingy...

PaperWings · July 2012

My time I can charge what I want xP that's my theory!

FixMeImNotBroken · July 2012

Like I said, this is my opinion, and I don't need a million people saying they agree that it's paying for time. I get that. But in the same respect, often I find that the people that may charge a bit lower are the ones that actually do the dogs in a very well timed effort instead of rushing through it. Along with this, the only people who are complaining are the ones with the training kennel, not the people paying for them. Not to mention, novices start out with 50k and some sponsors have 200mill+ so obviously those richer sponsors aren't going to complain about paying 1mill per dog while the novices can hardly afford a skill and stat max. Also, in my opinion, if someone just raises their costs due to only the time, why bother training? If you hate grooming, don't do it, simple as that. Like I said, the people that charge lower tend to actually return the dog much quicker than that of one that I pay 1mill per dog, or at least that's how it goes in my experiences. Seriously though, I don't need a lot of people saying "Yeah, I agree. Trainers are paid for their time." Frankly, trainers should rather be paid for their effort and time. But if you don't want to waste your time, don't train. It's not hard. I'm not saying anyone is a bad person for having higher prices so I don't need everyone ganging up on me because frankly I don't care. It's my opinion and I respect yours but I don't need everyone saying the same thing over and over.

Alabama · July 2012

mackenzie, I don't think anyone is ganging up on you. They're stating their opinions and what you might have missed when you came to your first conclusion. That's kinda the reason for having a forum, to "share" information, ideas and opinions. I don't have other people train for me on VP, so I really don't have an opinion either way, but I do know there are quite a few sponsors who are willing to train dogs for novices cheaper than their standard prices if the novice asks politely and seems really interested in bettering their animals and/or learning about the game. I know some sponsors also train more cheaply for someone who uses their services consistently. Sponsors generally know how hard it is to get started in the game and do take that into consideration. However, they aren't going to advertise cheaper prices because then they will get inundated by people who just want stuff done cheaply and when the sponsor decides they don't have time, the other player gets upset. VP isn't a strictly commercial game, it's more of a social game and players need to talk to others to get a good start if they don't want or can't afford to upgrade right away. That's just the way it is. If players were supposed to be able to get ahead easily, all on their own, with no communication with others, the game would provide for all the training without having to upgrade. If a novice can't afford the training prices, they should shop around and talk to other sponsors. By talking I don't mean just up and asking a cheaper price. They should show their interest and display what they know about the game and actually talk to sponsors. Just my opinion anyway.

PaperWings · July 2012

mackenziedance96 wrote:

I'm not saying anyone is a bad person for having higher prices so I don't need everyone ganging up on me because frankly I don't care. It's my opinion and I respect yours but I don't need everyone saying the same thing over and over.

Just want to point out, that because you are entitled to your opinion so is everyone else. Which may happen to be the same as others, doesn't mean they are "saying the same thing over and over", they are just stating their opinion ;D And people don't like working in real life, but they go to work because they get a 'reward' aka money at the end of it. And thus be the same motivation on here just that it be game money lol. At the end of the day it is a game, with no set path on how to play. So people can do what they like, how they like - within the T&C of the game of course =D

Troglin · July 2012

As Bama said, nobody is trying to gang up on you. We're just simply posting our opinions, as you have. Any repeats are simply from shared opinions. It's not a way to make you feel bad or as though your opinion/post doesn't matter. For me specifically, it's actually interesting to see how much per year is going straight to turn cost. I'm too lazy to do math, but I have wondered how much it costs. :P I don't know about anyone else, but I consider time/effort the same thing. When I say I don't want to waste my time, it's the effort involved in that time that I'm talking about. I waste actual time every day! It's the effort that's being wasted, since trainers could put their effort towards their own lines. Some people value their time/effort a little less when they're bored and they value it more when they're swamped. I don't know how many times people have literally asked me to drop everything I'm doing just to train their dogs. If I really can't spend the extra time, I'll tell them no. If they're offering a pretty price or they're a close friend, I'll do it. I thought about your inflation point when I was trying to sleep last night. In order for inflation to get fixed, hundreds of millions have to be removed from this game. Charging less for any service just means we won't be able to afford the things we like or need. It would be nice if the game wasn't so inflated though! I remember when dyes sold for 9 mil and upgrades sold for 20 mil. The only reason prices are up is because there is so much excess cash, with no way to remove it from the game. As far as novices go, I feel bad for them that they start out with 50k, but all of us started there. There are some pretty wealthy novices, even though they started with 'inflation'. If they can make it, so can others. It's a struggle as a novice, but it's just another reason to encourage players to find a way to upgrade. I've given over 100 million away to new players over the years. I try to train their dogs as much as possible. There are quite a few who I hope will do well, because they're polite and grateful. I don't remember if you were around that time, but if anyone remembers "Free Fridays", you'll know there was a huge supply of helpful sponsors.

Kazuko · July 2012

For me, I just look at the different ways I do make money. For VP, using Ana's math, I could make $1.25 an hour. On the other hand, I could make $2 an hour in art (with the assumption that it takes me about an hour and a half to draw/color a 500x500pixel image, which I then sell for $3) In the long run, it's more worth it to sell art than it is to groom, and by grooming I'm spending time I could be spending on art making more money than I do here, so I'm going to charge outrageously for my time on VP, especially considering I -can't- make actual money grooming. xD And then it all boils down to supply and demand. If there's a lot of demand, and little supply, I can charge my 75k-150k per year and get away with it, because people don't have a lot of choice if they want someone to train FOR them *shrug*

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