Multiple Things

tarnish · March 2012

Taking Money Automatically-Taking money automatically when bids are placed on a dog. If the person deletes your bid or you cancel it, you get the money back. This stops people from bidding money they do not have. Alerts -Alerts for when your bids are deleted or when you have received a bid. Yeah, there are histories but from my experience, that isn't always checked too often and then there's the fact that not all bids show up on it (not sure if this has been fixed). Nice to know when your bid is declined yes? Maybe even put in a small text box option when you delete so you can send a small message as to why. I believe its convenient but if people chose to just search the name and manually message, thats fine. Just thought I'd throw my idea out there. Change the rules -Change the rules on discussing other websites that are kid friendly. I've played other sites where you are allowed to talk about other sim type games and animal adoptables. Cross promotion happens when you allow your users to do this and it opens more areas for conversation. I haven't seen anything negative from this. When its banned I just feel like the site is threatened and it feels a little too much of a censor. Also, if this game is pg13 and you can say hell, ass, along with a few other choice words, then why can't you mention social sites with the same age range? Again, cross promotion and there are even vp groups but we can't even talk about them on here. More Events -You know what this site lacks? A referral system with rewards. Hasn't anyone noticed not many new players come in? Sure we get some once in awhile but we could really pull the site traffic up. Perhaps 5 referrals with confirmed emails can get 1 unmade import. Something like that. Maybe fame? VP doesn't have many things available to put as 'prizes'. Anything we could potentially do as prizes people will argue "but it takes away from sponsors!". Seriously though, a referral system would be nice, along with perhaps HOLIDAY things? I'm sorry but what was done for Christmas on here felt very very weak. It seemed like it was rushed and more of an afterthought dressing up the icons. Why not have switchable layouts and create a nice new one for Christmas? It feels very forgotten on here.. Credits -What would be nice is if you could get tokens (or whatever you want to call them). You buy them with real cash and you could send them to people, sell them for vp cash, etc. You don't have to worry about someone sending you an upgrade, they can give the tokens. You can gift people these and save them up. Maybe even pay for dogs with them? Sounds like it would bring in more cash. You could do it as 1 token per $1. And who knows, maybe people will donate small when parents allow them, like $5 and they can save them up until they can trade them in for things. Graphics -This feels very.. lacking in images. It's all imagination and text heavy. Younger players and even older ones want to be able to -see- things. I know there was a project of VP having an artist draw the dog breeds and I guess that kind of got forgotten. But if we could somehow incorporate more images? Get some nice art going on here to make it look really nice? I'm just saying there is a lot VP can do to bring in more players and get the site spruced up. ^^ It's been a ghost town around here. There used to be so many players and more of a community. Chat would always be busy and now when I log on, its usually the same 4 ops sitting in there with maybe 0-3 other players. I'd really appreciate Op responses and if Ari or Nate could respond.. Thanks to anyone that reads!

Zagari Wolf · March 2012

I love all your suggestions. Though I'd be less likely to use the "credit" system. I do love the others though! Good thoughts.

tarnish · March 2012

I think you may use it more than you think. Would be nice to hang on to some credits and be able to trade others for them and save up for upgrades and such.

Thanks for the comment

Troglin · March 2012

I do want to say that it's unlikely (in my opinion) that any updates will come before the new beta is completed and everything has been merged over. The update should allow for new ideas to be implemented much faster and easier than currently, as the code won't be so mangled.

tarnish wrote:

Taking Money Automatically-Taking money automatically when bids are placed on a dog. If the person deletes your bid or you cancel it, you get the money back. This stops people from bidding money they do not have.

I kind of like this idea, but then I've got bids from several years ago that still have yet to be accepted, declined, or otherwise removed. I think it would have to be fine tuned to perhaps automatically cancel bids after so much time, or something of that nature. It's a good idea though. I think, for the most part, I would completely support it.

Alerts -Alerts for when your bids are deleted or when you have received a bid. Yeah, there are histories but from my experience, that isn't always checked too often and then there's the fact that not all bids show up on it (not sure if this has been fixed). Nice to know when your bid is declined yes? Maybe even put in a small text box option when you delete so you can send a small message as to why. I believe its convenient but if people chose to just search the name and manually message, thats fine. Just thought I'd throw my idea out there.

Histories don't even list a bid if it's from a linked account, so I actually like this idea to an extent. Perhaps a way to toggle alerts on and off. I'd be really annoyed if I'm in the middle of training and an alert pops up from nowhere. :P If you mean an actual alert section, similar to the other imap links, that would be an interesting idea too.

Change the rules -Change the rules on discussing other websites that are kid friendly. I've played other sites where you are allowed to talk about other sim type games and animal adoptables. Cross promotion happens when you allow your users to do this and it opens more areas for conversation. I haven't seen anything negative from this. When its banned I just feel like the site is threatened and it feels a little too much of a censor. Also, if this game is pg13 and you can say hell, ass, along with a few other choice words, then why can't you mention social sites with the same age range? Again, cross promotion and there are even vp groups but we can't even talk about them on here.

While other sites do allow for advertising of other games, we cannot monitor the content on those websites. It's not that we want to prohibit users from experiencing the real world or other websites, but we also can't have a child stumble across something extremely disturbing, and then have an angry parent on our hands. While yes, parents should supervise their children, we all know this is rarely the case. On a couple sites I've been on, there have been separate sections for those over 18 or 21, where you have to be approved to participate in them. I've been in these types of groups, but I can say that the content on them isn't much different from regular sections. Curse words and social sites are worlds apart as far as maturity levels go. I can't say how many times I've seen such reckless acts on social sites; behaviors that put the individuals, their friends, or their family in danger. Players on here are aware of social sites and other game sites, so there's no real reason to discuss them openly. Friends can discuss them privately, though we don't recommend giving out personal information. At the end of the day, it's a potential risk, and it's a risk that Virtual Pups is unlikely to ever play with.

More Events -You know what this site lacks? A referral system with rewards. Hasn't anyone noticed not many new players come in? Sure we get some once in awhile but we could really pull the site traffic up. Perhaps 5 referrals with confirmed emails can get 1 unmade import. Something like that. Maybe fame? VP doesn't have many things available to put as 'prizes'. Anything we could potentially do as prizes people will argue "but it takes away from sponsors!". Seriously though, a referral system would be nice, along with perhaps HOLIDAY things? I'm sorry but what was done for Christmas on here felt very very weak. It seemed like it was rushed and more of an afterthought dressing up the icons. Why not have switchable layouts and create a nice new one for Christmas? It feels very forgotten on here..

I've noticed that, even when new players come in, several of the older players will bully them away or make fun of them behind their backs. While I love the oldies and enjoy having familiar players around, the biggest cause for players to give up on the game is from 1) lack of understanding and 2) lack of genuine friendly players. I can't even repeat some of the things I've heard new players called. I do somewhat like the idea of a referral system, though instead of imports perhaps the bonus could be VPC. I do see this being abused with multiple accounts, however. This past holiday season, there were some decorations on the game. I would agree with having neat layouts to switch out, but that goes along with graphics. As far as those are concerned, I don't think anyone is really aware of whether it'll happen or not.

As far as events go, I'm actually in the middle of creating various events, including some summer, Halloween, and winter ideas. Hopefully the layout and all that neat stuff will be up within the next couple of weeks, so the games and start rolling out. It would be nice to see more official VP events and such, but I suppose we'll have to see what the future brings.

Credits -What would be nice is if you could get tokens (or whatever you want to call them). You buy them with real cash and you could send them to people, sell them for vp cash, etc. You don't have to worry about someone sending you an upgrade, they can give the tokens. You can gift people these and save them up. Maybe even pay for dogs with them? Sounds like it would bring in more cash. You could do it as 1 token per $1. And who knows, maybe people will donate small when parents allow them, like $5 and they can save them up until they can trade them in for things.

I do believe a token system will eventually be implemented. We were looking into something of this nature due to the trainoff scams, so rather than having upgrades/goodies being transferred over, the tokens could simply be moved. It would make it so much easier. I would love the token system so I could save up tokens and eventually buy myself upgrades, dyes, personal breeds, etc. and barely think about the cost. They'd also make pretty neat prizes or payments too, because someone else could be saving them up too.

Graphics -This feels very.. lacking in images. It's all imagination and text heavy. Younger players and even older ones want to be able to -see- things. I know there was a project of VP having an artist draw the dog breeds and I guess that kind of got forgotten. But if we could somehow incorporate more images? Get some nice art going on here to make it look really nice?

The issue with a graphic heavy site is the page load time. When you begin having image overload, it will take longer and longer for pages to load. Some internet connections can barely tolerate the current load, and it's not even that heavy. I would love to see more uniform art, but not in every nook and cranny. Other game sites have very graphic oriented pages, and I personally find it excessive. Imagination is a good thing. Some of the game sites have really creepy dog images too, but maybe that's just me. I'd like an image bank type of thing, but the problem is getting enough donations of good art. Realistically speaking, this is unlikely to ever truly happen. They get started but then they die off. I think it (an image bank) might be something planned for the future, but it's not really a near future or mission critical piece.

I think I addressed all of your points, but feel free to let me know if I missed something.

Also, for a disclaimer I suppose, these are my own opinions, not necessarily the opinions of VP or any other Op. Nobody can say for sure what will or will not happen, and so on. :P

Alabama · March 2012

Alerts would be nice to have. Not that I sell dogs very often, but it confuses me when I check my management page once every month or so and see I have a bid on a dog and I wonder "How long has that been there?" I think this may be where not enough money comes into play as well. If I don't see a bid for a month, then go to accept it, the other player may have forgotten they placed a bid and not have the money to cover it. Most of the bids I receive are from new players who were most likely looking for their first dog and since my kennel was the first on the list, they found me first, before they spent all their money. Allowing outside websites is something I hope doesn't happen. I know the majority of "long time" players are responsible and wouldn't share sites that are in some way against the rules, but many younger players can't/won't make that distinction. If some are allowed, where do we draw the line so players know the difference? Just because a site is supposed to be okay for those over 13, doesn't mean that's enforced in any way, nor that the advertising is monitored. I hope social sites are not allowed. Personally, I know of a couple that would probably be alright on here, but the majority of social sites wouldn't be, especially when paired with young people who aren't internet safety savvy. And for me, if a young player wants to share their personal info with a stalker or pervert, I hope VP doesn't go down the path of making it easy for them to be found. More events would be nice too, though I find most referral programs tend to be abused. One nice thing about the coding being done for beta is the ability to DO more things than what the current code is able to. There may even be an ability to earn things in game for being part of a "special" event. Maybe some kind of incentive reward for being active for 6 months or something. Maybe there could be some kind of "apprentice" program where a sponsor could "link" to a novice account and vice versa and if that novice stays active for 6 months, both receive some kind of reward. Might make more established players want to get the word out and want to try and help new players stick around. Yeah, credits have been talked about a lot in the past year. I believe they are planned for the new code. I agree VP needs more graphics, but as Anastasia pointed out, without having images to use, it's kinda hard to even get started. VP overall needs an image update and I think the beta game will provide some of that to make things easier to understand and do.

tarnish · March 2012

Allowing you to talk about other sites has worked on other sim games I've played. You can find out who else plays and again do the cross promotion. I'm not sure why VP has to 'babysit' kids on the internet. As long as the site is the rating that ala is, I don't know why its a problem. If the kid chooses to sign up for the other site, they have to follow their rules. I don't know why VP is responsible for a site that person decides to go on. Those social sites are also spoken on commericials a lot. If someone doesn't know what they are by now they've lived under a rock. A lot of people I've run into on this game dislike that you can't freely talk about site. The worst that would come out of it is that Ops can do a bit more of their job. For referrals, yeah sure there are ways to try and cheat it but honestly.. it almost feels like a cop out saying that people may abuse it? You just need to be more thorough with your jobs. It just sounds like you don't want to pick up more work (I'm trying not to sound rude because that's not my intention truly). Referrals would bring in way more traffic. I was just using imports as just an idea for an outline, not a final one. Cash would work too. As of now, we don't even have any methods of inviting your friends even if there's not a reward attatched to it. Also, I think your idea is interesting, Bama, about linking up sponso/novices for rewards but just need to make sure its a unique user and not someones side novice. Which maybe when the game is updated where all your kennels are under one name would make it easier. For the images, I'm not saying for it to get so image heavy that it breaks or slows down so much. Just some nice graphics that are eye appealing so its not so text based is all I'm saying. I couldn't come up with a solid way to do this but just implimenting some would increase the appeal of the game. For credits, glad it's being talked about. I think I submitted that idea before awhile ago but thought I'd resubmit it again with these suggestions. I think that will help a lot with donations

Nice cool system. I'm not sure what you're getting at Ana by saying the new players leave from the other players. I don't get what this has to do with the referral suggestion unless you're saying its not a good idea to invite new people because they will be chased away (not trying to put words in your mouth. Just trying to piece what your point was is all ^^;)? From what you say this sounds like an uninviting website which isn't how it should be. I'm glad you like the alart thing. I didn't have it fully fleshed out but it did cross my mind to have another icon for it on the imap. I think I got everything.. I just feel VP is falling behind with some things and its contributing to the slow traffic lately. Hopefully the updating brings it back up. I still don't formally play. I only log into the forums and see how things are going. Lately I've been on another game and was part of staff on there until I chose to step down for a little. Each game has something it could learn from one another. ^^; I will say staff seems more friendly on here than on the other game. I don't know if that's because I was part of this community longer or what. xD

Troglin · March 2012

VP doesn't feel we have to babysit children, but we're also not about to throw them into an adult rated world and just let people rip them apart. There have been some extremely disturbing players on this website -- ones you've never seen, because Ops do their jobs to protect children from those individuals. I've seen things that even make me blush, and I'm by no means a prude. If we allowed children to discuss other websites, especially social media sites, we would be opening them up to even more predators. It comes down to safety, and most people (including adults) in this world don't understand the concept of internet safety. I have seen so many tiny bits of information on this site that would allow a predator to track someone down quite easily. It makes me shake my head what people will say, and in allowing social sites (among others), we're allowing even more possibilities. We're not trying to censor children from the real world, that's their parents job, but we're also not going to be responsible if a child does become a victim and it all leads back to this website. At any rate, there is never a reason to give out personal information (such as a social page) on a child game. Never. I might sound like a hypocrite, but there is seriously never a reason to trust anyone from the internet. Giving out personal information can be dangerous to yourself and your family. There isn't a reason to bring that risk to a childs game, regardless of the median age of the site.

tarnish wrote:

For referrals, yeah sure there are ways to try and cheat it but honestly.. it almost feels like a cop out saying that people may abuse it? You just need to be more thorough with your jobs. It just sounds like you don't want to pick up more work (I'm trying not to sound rude because that's not my intention truly).

I can't say much about this line without getting in trouble, but Ops do their job. We're all more than willing to do extra work. I have put over 80 hour weeks on VP before, even if it's just staring at chat for hours on end, with the occasional ticket or inappropriate kennel name. I still maintain a real life job and at the time, I was going to school to boot. I make sure I go out of my way to do as much as I can for VP. I know it's not your intention to anger anyone, but that still does hurt when I hear people talk about Ops not doing their jobs. I've devoted so much of my free time to moderating, and while I don't regret it in the least bit, I do get bitter when it's implied we don't do enough. We do our 'jobs', but most of it is so behind the scenes that nobody notices. Multiple accounts is a huge problem and we deal with that issue every single day. It's not easy work when you have some who have over 20+ accounts. Referrals are basically saying "here's even more free stuff to get". People abuse multiple accounts for the simple 50k 'reward'. I'm not saying I'm not capable or willing to pick up extra mod work, but it's unnecessary at the same time. Referrals generally go out to a persons friends or family members. If they want to advertise, I would rather it be because they enjoy the game, not because it offers a reward. Perhaps when the update comes, it would be better, but the single login feature could still be abused. Since there wouldn't be any updates til the new VP version is in place, I suppose a referral system would be good in the future, just not right now. I would agree for a flashier, more attractive VP design. Right now none of it matches, and personally the dreadlock dog creeps me out. ;P

I'm not sure what you're getting at Ana by saying the new players leave from the other players. I don't get what this has to do with the referral suggestion unless you're saying its not a good idea to invite new people because they will be chased away (not trying to put words in your mouth. Just trying to piece what your point was is all ^^;)? From what you say this sounds like an uninviting website which isn't how it should be.

I'm just making the point that, even with a referall system, the likelihood of a user choosing to stay is low. This isn't necessarily because the game is bad, but I attribute it to older players have to secretly shun the new ones. I know many of the players on here will understand exactly what I'm talking about, when I say that I've seen new players insulted just because they talk or act a certain way, or simply because they're new. It's not easy being new, especially when you have players being extremely cold towards each other. Can Ops do anything about it? Not really, because we can't force players to be kind to each other, nor can we really moderate the areas where players choose to openly assault the newbies. So basically, my point isn't necessarily against the referral system, but in order for us to get 'new blood', we first must work on a more open community. A community where there is minimal division amongst the players; so that players need not feel intimidated by each other. A community where everyone (or just about) can get along, without snickering privately. This is what I'm trying to do with all of my event ideas, but events alone won't solve this problem. Only people willing to change and accept a new reality will allow for the ideal game environment. Only then would I see referrals being useful. Advertising is probably in VP's future, if I were to guess anyhow. Referrals would probably be included in that, but I would love to see the community get a real community feel to it before trying to really attract massive amounts of people. And I've got to head off to work so I'll leave it at that for now.

tarnish · March 2012

I wasn't saying that you weren't doing your jobs Ana. I never said that so please don't get upset with that ^^;;. I was just not sure if you guys were just unwilling to put up with a little more work is all. I don't know what goes on behind the scenes or anything so I can't really say if you do your jobs or not. I can't physically see what's going on so I have no opinion or voice on that. I hope I didn't upset you. I guess I won't understand VP's stance on not sharing other sites. There will always be people that post things to make you blush. I actually had to report one of such and it would be quite disturbing to a child. I am not supporting R rated sites or anything of the sort. I will just drop this subject since I said everything I had to say on it earlier. I'm glad the dog doesn't just creep me out xD

Alabama · March 2012

I think just because something works somewhere else isn't a reason it should be allowed. It also doesn't work in other places. When SW was younger, I used to try and find games I'd approve of that we could play together and many of those rated for 13 or even younger, had little or no adult supervision beyond what each player's parent might give (if were young enough to need a parent). I was even propositioned on one kid's site without the other person knowing how old I was, so not cool. While I know it's not our job to "babysit" everyone's kids, I feel like it's my job as a human being to try and protect everyone's children. If a parent doesn't care about feeding their child or teaching them to not play on the highway, does that mean I should shrug and say "Not my problem"? I couldn't live with myself like that. I firmly believe talking about other social and/or gaming sites can lead kids to stuff they shouldn't have to deal with, especially if there isn't a parent watching or teaching in the background. VP is one of the few games I've found (probably because I helped moderate it and get rid of the majority of cybering and dating ads) that has a forum or chat that I would consider safe for any age of player. The only way I could see being more thorough about who is creating accounts would be to have to have them physically checked every time one is created to make sure it's not the same person referring themselves before allowing anyone to play. By abuse, what I mean isn't so much someone referring themselves though, but people who refer others for the added gift and get people to create an account and then the new person never plays, or gives what ever little bit they have to the person who referred them. How do you monitor that? The current player gets free stuff for referring someone they knew probably never would play. I used to get referrals to play games constantly and begged to create an account so my "friends" could get the special whatever they got for referring someone, even when they knew I had no interest in that type of game. I can't think of one of those referral games I ever gave any money to or played for longer than a couple months if I lasted beyond the first time. I don't think referrals which reward current players are the answer to getting VP's community to grow. After all, if someone thinks one of their friends would enjoy playing, wouldn't they just tell them about it? I don't think VP needs to give away stuff to current players so they'll spam all their friends just to create an account so they can get it. It's quality that we need, not quantity. Hundreds of new players looks really good on the books, but unless they stick around to become part of the community and/or spend money on the game, they really don't mean much. Encouraging new players to stick around and to get excited enough to tell their friends would be one way to get numbers up. I believe admin1 and admin2 have new graphics for the new "beta" game, which will update and make VP more user and eye friendly, bringing more people. I'm pretty sure they will have some advertising for the new game when it goes live for the public, also bringing more people. Credits are more than being talked about. They are coming at some point. admin1 was talking about clever names to call them last I heard. I agree that VP is lagging big time. I'm hoping that when the new game starts beta, that a lot of the older players will return to check it out and like it and when it goes public, they'll bring their friends along. I'm looking forward to it so maybe I can get back into actually playing xP

DarkHawke · March 2012

I definitely agree with most of Tarnish's suggestions. As for the referral program, and talking about other sites, here is my two cents. Every other SIM type game that I play allows you to talk about other sites/advertise for other sites. While you (Alabama) say that your friends sent you requests for things you didn't want to play... I'm sure many VP players, like myself, play other SIM games as well as many other animal type games. In fact I know we do as I met a few VP players on another animal based SIM type site. Now if you're on a site like that you can talk to others that are interested in the same things. I personally play 4 other animal based/SIM sites that are not really similar to this one, but in ways they are. Now, if talking about other sites was allowed here, then I would definitely be more willing to cross-post and talk people there into coming into the game here. That being said, referrals are a great way to get people to join because instead of just stumbling across the site and not knowing anyone, the person knows someone who can help them out with the game. Say I refer 3 people from another site I play, when they join, they know they can ask me how to play, and I can then help them with the rules, as well as things that will help them fit in with the VP community. I am a newbie myself, (Have only played since January) but I have bought 3 sponsor kennels and feel that I fit in within the community because quite a few of the older players have no problem talking with me, helping me out with the game, answering questions, anything I ask really. I don't know if that's because I didn't run into chat going "PLZZZ TLK 2 MEH!!!" or what, but that's just how it happened for me. So point here being, that I think referrals will let people know someone when they join and have someone there that can help get them acquainted with the site and the community. Maybe a way to stop people from creating multiple accounts would be to have a code in place so that anyone with the same IP address must provide the info to their sponsor kennel when registering a new kennel? Like just a box that says "Sponsor account info" to create a new novice kennel. (Does this make sense? If not I can try to explain it in a different way.) These are solely my own opinions, not meant to start conflict, etc.

DiamondPuppy0809 · March 2012

I absolutely love the alerts and credits idea. My favorite suggestions, by far. You always contribute ideas to this game quite well, Tarnish! I personally don't mind that VP lacks graphics in some areas. I played a different virtual animal/dog game and it was painfully slow - probably because of all the graphics everywhere. I quit because I couldn't get anything done or figure anything out if I had to wait 10 seconds every time I clicked a new link or was redirected to a page. I love how speedy VP is for the most part now, I remember when it was really slow for doing some things and that was really frustrating. I guess I'm just more into the suggestions for actual game play, because that's what's going to benefit most.

Anastasia wrote:

Other game sites have very graphic oriented pages, and I personally find it excessive.

I totally agree with this. The reason VP is my favorite virtual game is because it leaves things up to the imagination and such. And even when I was younger and had just joined, the lack of pictures didn't bother me at all, I don't even think I realized it. I enjoyed the game more than the graphic-heavy ones I'd come across - just because the idea of it was what I was interested in. I've tried to find other games like VP without success... I've never become hooked to any other virtual game like I have to VP. xD As for the whole "take money automatically" for bidding, that does make sense. The only issue is with players not seeing the bid right away, or players not logging in for weeks or months at a time - that's a problem for the novices that only start with 50k. If they bid 45k on a nice dog and their money is taken away automatically, they only have 5k to work with. They could be waiting for a long time for the other player to notice and/or accept their bid as well. What if they were relying on the dog they bid on to event and earn VPC? I don't know, it just seems like an issue to me. Overall, those are the only things I felt I wanted to comment on. Great, detailed suggestions, Tarnish!

tarnish · March 2012

For the bids, if the alerts is added, then they won't have to wait forever for a response. I also stated they are welcome to cancel their bid and get their money back that way. They don't have to wait for the other player if they feel like taking the bid off. If they are worried not having much to work with, then maybe they should bid? That's how we end up with people not having the cash when the other player goes to accept a bid ^^;. Thank you very much

I will be interested when the beta is set up to see what else can be changed/added/removed

Kazuko · March 2012

I keep trying to make myself create an image bank for VP, but there are so few artists interested, and it's a super huge project for one person to do, especially with no motivation, so that's why it keeps dying off. xD Just wanted to throw that in there. I've always wanted an optional Image Bank just so people can have something if they want it.

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