Horses,horses,horses,!!!

Animalsaremything · December 2011

Okay so today I had a lesson on my horse,so we walk trot canter but she doesn't know one of her leads and since she was a racehorse she is only used to the side that she used to run on oh her name is (Fendi)Okay so we try beading her neck to the rail so it makes her want to pick up the right lead that doesn't work then we try circle and that doesn't work and then we try just do it without anything and just normal that doesn't work .So my trainer comes over and starts yelling at my horse and yanking on her mouth and (she was a racehorse and they did that when she was bad at the track) so we got the right lead and then Fendi decides that she is a racehorse and starts GALLOPING around the ring(we are inside-ring)I was so an angry,wouldn't you!!??I was watching my friend ride her horse in the lesson and we have the same trainer and she took a lunge whip and smacked the horse in the butt And that horse took off,so now I am looking at new barns and this one barn we really want to go to is full so we are on a waiting list! Any tips on how to get her on the right lead? I feel better now!

Minx · December 2011

Right now i wouldnt worry about leads with her. Sounds like first she needs to learn to slow down and relax. Let her go but if she speeds up then make her break down at the neck (one rein stops) and make her flex, then let her go again until she realizes she isnt getting to go anywhere unless its slowly.

Animalsaremything · December 2011

Okay,she won at my state finals and was asked to England,she does leads only when she is in shows but I want her to get used doing it all the time,it wasn't her fault she took off how would you like if someone pulled really hard on your mouth 5 times!She never ever did that with me on her she was probably very scared and in pain!

Minx · December 2011

She shouldnt do leads ONLY in shows. A horse either does leads or they dont. And it doesnt matter if someone was pulling on her mouth, she still bolted on some one which means she has holes in her training. There is NO excuse for a horse doing that, being pulled on, ex racehorse or not. This horse needs some training and sometimes pulling on the mouth IS necessary. A horse has to be trained to be light and supple to the reins which your has not. Trust me. I HAVE an ex racehorse and she knows the difference between whoa and go. Sometimes things are necessary (not abuse but i dont feel like a have the whole story about WHY your trainer did that they did with EITHER horse) that seem like they shouldnt be with horses. Sometimes my ex barrel racer likes to pull through me and run out from under me and you better believe i shut her down by pulling on the reins as hard as i can.

Animalsaremything · December 2011

You don't know what my horse has been threw why don't you put something in your mouth and then pull so hard and your telling me that you wouldn't min that!That was THE ONLY TIME she ever has done something like that,Fendi is a very mellow horse,and when you barrel race you are like galloping,so of course the horse is going to pull.

Minx · December 2011

Look... you asked for advice. I gave some. And yes. I DO know. Im a trainer. If your barrel racing then you ASKED your horse to run. That means she DIDNT start "Galloping off" Youve got a very mixed up story going on here. Im not going to reply to this thread anymore because obviously it will not do any good.

Horsegirl210 · December 2011

Maybe a stronger bit? If she takes off, take your reins and turn her in a tight circle. She doesn't deserve punishment....yet. She was just doing what she learned, so the first time she does it, it's okay. But from now on, do NOT let her get away with this. When you are trying to change her lead, simply bring her back to the trot, two steps later, ask for a canter. Continue to do that until she gets the right lead. That's called a simple lead change. Once she gets the hang of that, start doing the same thing, but in figure eights. Then, start teaching her a flying lead change. Get a steady pace, and get comfortable. When you feel she is ready, put weight on your inside, and shift your outside leg to behind your girth, and your inside leg "on" the girth. Pull BOTH reins to the outside and BAM with your inside leg. My horse used to have the same problem. If she doesn't get the lead change the first time, it's absolutely fine. It can be a long process, and that's perfectly normal. Reward her if she tries. It will feel sort of like a baby buck. Good luck. Just a note, I seriously do not agree with aggression unless it is absolutely needed. Horses are living breathing things. We make mistakes, but when we do, we don't get smacked. It's the same with horses. I am not saying you do this, but I am just noting.

Animalsaremything · December 2011

Wow that is great the only thing she feels when I get ready to make her canter though

Horsegirl210 · December 2011

That's fine too, as long as she doesn't take off. In fact, there is absolutely nothing wrong with her knowing when you are asking for a canter.

Animalsaremything · December 2011

Okay no Fendi would never ever do that again you could look in her eye that day and see that she was scared and nervous

Horsegirl210 · December 2011

Alright. I just suggested something.

SC`s Stars II · January 2012

I'm in the process of rehabilitating a horse that was abused and neglected and I've found the easiest way I find to correct seemingly 'simple' problems such as a lead and what not is to simply go back to the basics. Try groundwork routines and simple lead changes. Maybe try cutting across the arena and ask for a lead change there instead of the rail and go in the opposite direction you were before. Every horse learns differently and some require negative reinforcement, others positive. Negative reinforcement doesn't involve having to hurt the horse in any way, it's just making their incorrect behavior an unpleasant behavior to do. Positive rewards correct behavior and ignores incorrect. Just try going back to the basics and use very straight forward commands just as if you were breaking a horse. If you pull towards the rail, pull then release as soon as your horse does it. That sort of thing can make a HUGE difference. Same with getting the correct lead, if they pick it up right away, reward.

Animalsaremything · January 2012

Thanks that helps so much!

CallyKats Dachshunds · January 2012

tiny dancer wrote:

Okay no Fendi would never ever do that again you could look in her eye that day and see that she was scared and nervous

I'm just going to comment on this first and foremost. A horse is NOT a human, it's a horse. A horse that can badly injure, if not kill, you. Horses do not have the emotions that we do. That's called anthropomorphizing, and it's wrong. Fendi will do that again, and someone that is willing to (and will) correct it needs to be the one on her and doing that. I agree completely with Vampy, and I find your reply to her advice extremely rude. And I would assume (from previous handling/riding/training experience that a horse will not take off galloping around like a crazed maniac if someone on the ground is jerking the bit in their mouth. They may fling their head up, run backwards, rear, etc, but it's highly unlikely that they will start galloping around. A horse does not differentiate if it will pick up a lead or not based on if it's at a show or not. If anything, I would say that she realizes that you can't/won't make her pick up her lead, so she doesn't. I barrel race a mare, she's actually very headstrong and independent. You can bet your ass that if she pulls I'm going to yank on her face the opposite way she's pulling as hard as I can until we do what I want to do. If she takes off before I cue her to, she's going to get jerked in the mouth until she listens to me and doesn't just want to blindly take off. If I'm dealing with a green horse (of which this mare is NOT, she's a finished barrel horse), I'll be a little more lenient with the bit cues and give them benefit of the doubt that they got confused. I'm still going to correct them, but I'm going to give them the cue to what I was looking for first before I correct it, kind of just like a little reminder. A bit in my mouth, will not feel the same as one in a horse's mouth. Horses are not people, please do NOT compare them as such. Pumpkinpony, A stronger bit is not what this horse (or any horse) needs. A bit is a means of communication, not brakes. Yes, horses are living breathing things, but they can also kill us if we don't control them to prevent as much injury as we possibly can. If I can't lead a horse around on the ground without it trying to take off, kick, rear, etc-then I'll be damned if I'm going to get on that horse just so it can put me in an even more dangerous situation. If the OP of this thread cannot control the horse, she should not be riding it, IMHO. It's a shame if this is what is happening here, but I know I'd much rather be pissed at an instructor for telling me I can't ride that horse anymore than dead because I wanted to ride the horse I couldn't handle. As for the knowing when you're asking for a canter..I'm not sure if I'm reading this correctly or not, but I feel as though what's being said (just worded differently) is the fact that the horse anticipates being asked for the canter. Lucky use to do this. Previous riders always ran her at certain points on the trail and in the arena, so when I started riding her, she'd anticipate picking up a canter there, and would-regardless if I gave her the cue or not. I've since fixed this for the most part, though we still have points in time where she thinks she can just take off because I've run her up that hill on the trail before, but she is corrected and we don't run (if we planned/want to) until all the horses are calm and standing, waiting for a cue and ready to listen, not just take off.

Horsegirl210 · January 2012

Ditto, to response of my post, Vamp, but I mentioned a stronger bit in refferance to her being unable to control the horse. :-)

MissyMae95 · January 2012

Vamp, Sometimes SOME horses need a stronger bit, My horse has need stronger bits before, If you yank so har on a horses mouth your going to make them hard mouthed ( i think thats the word im looking for) so you need stronger bits somtimes. It just depends on the horse. And the bit does stop the horse. The reins direct the horse.

Minx · January 2012

She's not saying that a stronger bit is wrong, however a stronger bit shouldnt be a shortcut to correcting a training problem in a horse. When my horse was barrel racing she was in a combination bit with a wire connected to the rein. As soon as i got her i placed her in an o ring snaffle. She didnt understand it, different presure points so i tried her in a simple curve shanked broken curb. It did wonders on her. A bit should be used to communicate with the horse, not yank on it of course, but if my horse runs off then im not gonna hasitate to use something i have to HELP me. You dont tell a child something and not reinforce it with something stronger when they dont listen. And actually reins arent the means of directing a horse. In a well trained horse your body should do everything. With my ex barrel racer, i can (now, with six months of constant training) ride her tackless. No bridle, no saddle, and she goes where i point her using my body weight. All that to say, yes a horse might need a different bit but it shouldnt be a shortcut for proper training in a horse. Thats how crazy horses are created.

MissyMae95 · January 2012

I kinda take offense to that, Because my horse has been switched to stronger bits she has 3 diffrent bits, And shes not a crazy horse, Yes i agree that sometimes it is nescesarry to yank on a horses mouth i do it too, When shes not listing or acting up, Like if were riding in the pasture and she doesnt want to go one way casue she wants to leave and sha absolutly wont listen, I yank on her mouth till she listens, I think everyone has thier own way of training a horse, I dont think for a trail horse it really matters what type of bit used, I said that a bit wrong in my last post with reins controling the horse, I've had my horse for 6 years and can now do the same, Ride her bareback and no bridal. I trust my horse to the moon and back, Shes in no way a "crazy horse". And if you do switch bits then you want to train the horse to repspond to that bit and make sure it works, so not all of the time is a stronger bit bad.

Horsegirl210 · January 2012

Silliness, but Missy, you spelled bridle wrong. Love you. :-)

MissyMae95 · January 2012

Pumpkinpony wrote:

Silliness, but Missy, you spelled bridle wrong. Love you. :-)

Hahah im tired. I stayed up till 4 and woke up every hour.

Minx · January 2012

No offense was meant. I mean people who switch the bits to stronger and stronger bits because they CANT control the horse. My horse was one of them. She couldnt be stopped so they kept using bigger and bigger contraptions on her because she was getting used too and pulling through what she was in. And im not saying (vamp and i, seeing as how we talking over text about training techniques all the time) that we sit there and rip and roar on our mares mouths. Im VERY light handed with Rosie and i know Vamp is with Lucky until they need it. Horses dont learn FROM pressure they learn from the release of pressure. You HAVE to apply pressure to train a horse in the first place is all were saying. Rosie is very sensitive with her mouth and i was terrified when i first started riding her that i was going to make her hard mouthed but i had a trainer tell me there is nothing wrong with pressure when its applied in the correct manner.

CallyKats Dachshunds · January 2012

Missy_mae95 wrote:

Vamp, Sometimes SOME horses need a stronger bit, My horse has need stronger bits before, If you yank so har on a horses mouth your going to make them hard mouthed ( i think thats the word im looking for) so you need stronger bits somtimes. It just depends on the horse. And the bit does stop the horse. The reins direct the horse.

A bit does NOT stop the horse. You're body stops the horse, directs the horse, says anything and everything to the horse. Just as Vampy said. The bit/reins are used to help the horse learn what your body is telling them, essentially showing the horse what you're asking of it. I can stop Lucky with my seat while she's calm. If she gets too hyper and decides that she doesn't "feel" my seat cue asking her to stop, then she'll get the reins picked up telling her to stop, and if she still doesn't stop, then I yank the reins as much as I need to to MAKE her stop. That's how training a horse goes. Ask, tell, make-all for the safety of us. And with a stronger bit, unless you can give that release at the perfect time, it's much much easier to create a hard-mouthed horse than with a lighter bit, such as a snaffle. Sure, if I balance myself on my reins with a snaffle my horse will become hard mouthed, but a rider who isn't just a passenger and is, indeed, a rider, will not be balancing themselves on the reins/bit, they'll be using the bit only when needed to reinforce something that was asked/told, in order to make the horse. And just to emphasise, since it's a strong point for me: <ul class="bb-list-unordered">BITS ARE NOT BRAKES -They are a mere tool to be used to correct an issue resulting in faulty brakes until they can be fixed. NOT a permanent solution. </ul>

Horsegirl210 · January 2012

Is this an argument? I feel bad, because technically, I started this. O.O

Minx · January 2012

I dont know about the others but IM not arguing O-o

MissyMae95 · January 2012

I understand that. I understand all of what you guys are saying. And Im in no way a trainer, I've just been taught by my mom.

CallyKats Dachshunds · January 2012

No argument about the bit/brakes thing..I just wanted to make it clear for those who didn't understand.(: You posted while I was typing and I didn't get a chance to see it, I agree with what Vampy said in her reply

MissyMae95 · January 2012

Im not aruguing eathier.

Horsegirl210 · January 2012

Okay.

Minx · January 2012

Missy_mae95 wrote:

I understand that. I understand all of what you guys are saying. And Im in no way a trainer, I've just been taught by my mom.

I promise were not trying to gang up or anything O-o dang i feel like a bully. Its just Vamp and i both train show horses and she trains horses to sell and i train horses for the public, so we understand the technicalities of it. Were both going to college for equine related future jobs so we have a bit of knowledge and passion in the area and were trying to help people understand how to make life easier for the rider AND horse

MissyMae95 · January 2012

I understand, No need to feel like a bully haha, My horse is a 4-H horse we just do fun little shows, when i end up going to college im gonna be going for being a vet and a photographer, And maybe learn a few more things about horses and training.

CallyKats Dachshunds · January 2012

^--Diddo

I'm really not trying to argue/fight/etc, just educate. I will admit, I was slightly irked during my first post because of the rudeness presented by the OP towards Vampy's advice, and I may have let that show a bit. Treating a horse like a person and not correcting because it'll "hurt the spessul bond between pony and rider" or "my horse won't like me if I make her do something", is a really sore spot for me. An OTTB at the barn I ride/train at has been ruined because the girl who rides/leases her treats her like such, and the horse has quite a bit of potential with the speed, if only she had the respect for everyone. I can handle her on the ground and she'll be an angel, but she literally drags this girl around, even with a stud chain over her nose. I don't want to see anybody hurt by a horse, but it happens the most when a person thinks that it's okay to treat their horse as if it were they're human child. And it's a damn shame, usually because no one taught them that a horse is a horse, of course of course. And should be treated as such. I constantly give tips out to both girls (including the one with the OTTB mare) when I see them out there and they're either not doing something effectively, or something is becoming dangerous. I'm hoping to see the girl with the OTTB leased mare when I go out sometime so I can try and help her with lunging, because the horse is now dangerous to lunge because she's never corrected her. This horse now rears, strikes out at, and lunges at her when she's trying to lunge her, all because she doesnt correct her for fear of their "bond". The cold, hard truth? There is no bond between her and that horse except for in her mind, that horse has absolutely NO respect for her and merely puts up with her while she's semi-constrained. Anyway..back on topic.

As Vampy said, we're not trying to put anyone down, bully them, or argue; only trying to educate. And as horse people (including everyone posting), we know that sometimes when we feel strongly about something, that it can come out a little rough around the edges, even if we don't mean it as so.

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Horses,horses,horses,!!!

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