Conformance of breed names with F. C. I.

PiotrPies · October 2010

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Alabama · October 2010

VP goes loosely on the AKC, American Kennel Club, though there are breeds that are not recognized by the AKC which have been suggested by players with links to websites. The game is based in North America and most of its players are North American, so the AKC is recognized by most players, which is why it is used. <a href="http://www.akc.org/breeds/polish_lowland_sheepdog/index.cfm"; target="_blank" class="bb-url">http://www.akc.org/breeds/polish_lowland_sheepdog/index.cfm</a>;

PiotrPies · October 2010

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Alabama · October 2010

I wasn't saying it was a good or bad suggestion, just explaining where the names come from. As I said, it's "loosely" based on the AKC and on suggestions by players. Some players prefer "proper" names, others just use the name they are most familiar with. We certainly don't deny a breed just because it's not AKC recognized, nor do we insist, if the breed is recognized by the AKC, that it goes by the AKC name. There are many breeds that aren't recognized by any kennel/canine club and even some private breeds that aren't dogs at all, just fantasy creatures.

RoyalRaccoon · October 2010

As Bama has said, VP loosely goes by the AKC standards and way of grouping dogs, because that is what the majority of the players are familiar with, since the game was founded in North America. Any breed outside the AKC, including wild dogs and fantasy breeds, are typically suggested by players, and thus the suggested name is typically the one chosen to represent the breed. It's not about being 100% accurate to the origin country the breed is from, it's not even about being 100% accurate to AKC standards, or any kennel club for that matter, because there is no standard that all countries agree on. With the hundreds of breeds out there, it can be a time consuming job getting each and every breed into the game, let alone making sure they are all 100% true to some standard of some country or club. I've noticed breeds with standard colors that aren't even found in that breed without being crossbred, so an alternative name is not the worst mistake that could be made, but you just have to let little things like that go. In the the end it's just a game, and it's about having fun.

PiotrPies · October 2010

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Lonleycarrots · October 2010

Not the butt in, wich i am doing, but most people dont really care about such minor details. VP, is very serious for some people, but to most they still remeber its just a game and vp is not being judjed on such tiny things. On top of that ops have much more important things to do then fix a spelling error that most people whouldnt like twice at, and honestly dosent matter. As stated above to, this game is based on american standerds and most of the people on here our from america, so "polish sheep dog" is much easyr to understand then whatever you said.

Maxxy · October 2010

I'm Polish too, and can understand what you're saying. But VP has many, many international breeds. If all of them were in their native language, it would just complicate things and be unnecessary, you know?

^Oriyana^ · October 2010

As one of the people who adds breeds I can explain my reasoning for when I choose a name. I look at ALL the names the breed is known by. Then I choose on a couple criteria 1. What name is not almost exactly like another breeds name 2. What name will be easiest for the majority of players (most being english speaking, and many being young) to understand and remember and type out ;P The alternate names of breeds can be found on the breed suggestion list such as: - Polish Lowland Sheepdog [aka.] Polski Owczarek Nizinny, Valee Sheepdog, Berge Polonais de Vallee - Polish Tatra Sheepdog [aka.] Polish Owczarke Podhalanski <a href="http://virtualpups.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=70792"; target="_blank" class="bb-url">http://virtualpups.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=70792</a> Considering this is a virtual game and doesn't conform to any one kennel club or dog breed association I think less about what name is the "most correct" and more about which fits best with VP. No name I choose is exactly "incorrect" as it came from one kennel club/breed association or another.

PiotrPies · October 2010

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Maxxy · October 2010

Are you trying to make the point that our breed names are wrong? Because they aren't. What Oriyana was saying is that when a breed is added to the game, it's usually suggested by one of the players. It's up to them to do some preliminary research and get the breed name. Most breeds have multiple names, as does everything else in life. For example, here in America, we call it "Poland." You will call it "Polska." Should we go around and change everything that says "Poland" in America to "Polska" just to "respect a culture"? There is no reason to go around changing names.

PiotrPies · October 2010

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Maxxy · October 2010

Suggestions are desirable. There have been many instances where players pointed out spelling mistakes and they were fixed in the game. However, the breed names are loosely based on the AKC system. You're asking the game to convert over to the FCI.

^Oriyana^ · October 2010

I personally don't think that basing the game loosely on the AKC and CKC means that VirtualPups subscribes to a "mediocre" standard. The F.C.I. has their own standards, and while they may want to initiate international standards, the simple fact that the AKC and CKC have different standards means that the F.C.I.'s are not internationally accepted. I don't believe that the different standards of the AKC and CKC and even the UK's Kennel Club are automatically wrong. The F.C.I. is not the be all and end all of canine breed standards. If I went to a Canadian Kennel Club show and told them I wanted to enter my Deutscher Schäferhund, they would likely look at me as if I had two heads :P Likewise if I told people from Canada or the USA or even the UK that I owned a Deutscher Schäferhund, 95% would likely have no idea what I was talking about. That is because the correct name in these countries is German Shepherd. If it makes you feel better, say we conform to the standards of the VPKC, the VirtualPups Kennel Club :P

PiotrPies · October 2010

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NickelbackLuver · October 2010

I don't particularly care for changing names just to fit some standard most people don't know about, or care about. I don't understand why you're making a big deal out of this. Changing the breed names now, especially, would just be confusing and pointless. I like the way the dogs are named. I don't believe they all need to be uniform or 'proper'. It's a game, not a dog encyclopedia. If it bothers you that much, go make all of your own breeds to fit the proper names. I highly doubt it's bothering anyone else ;P If you want people to learn... go ahead and make a guide and see how many people actually care to read it. People like what is familiar to them, whether EVERYTHING fits 'good' standards or not, I think using names that the players can associate more with, is more beneficial to the game. If I walked into here and all the names were totally weird and I didn't recognize any of them, I'd just turn around and walk right back out and never even attempt to come back. I honestly don't care to learn about all the 'proper' names of dogs. It's a waste of time, really. I'd rather be able to look at a name and be able to classify it right away, rather than have to go google all the names to figure out what on earth it is I'm looking at. If I want to learn about dogs, the names are really the last thing I care to learn more about. I'd rather learn about their personality, breed traits, history, etc. There's way more to learn about dogs than just what names are fit for certain organizations. You also must take into consideration, this game has A LOT more dogs than most other dog sites. If extreme thought and thorough procedure was put into EVERY dog added, we wouldn't have so many breeds. I'm thankful VP has a lot of them, even if they have some flaws to some people. I don't think people will be afraid to make suggestions. Some of them go through, others of them just aren't very good. We've seen many ideas not work out, it's just part of the game.

tarnish · October 2010

As is evident from all the posts above, I've gotten a pretty good public beat-down for even making the suggestion. Naysayers have the advantage of inertia when changes are suggested, as doing nothing is very easy, but naysayers also discourage others from making suggestions. Oriyana provided some very good reasons not to make the changes, and I respect that, but some of the other comments were far more disheartening. I do hope that others are not discouraged from making suggestions despite the ugliness in this thread.

In regard to what you claim as a public beatdown is clearly an expression of opinions and explanations as to why things are the way they are on the game. Many ideas have been shot down by the community and it's not necessarily considered to be a beat-down. Just as there have been ideas that people don't agree with, there have been suggestions that people do support. The reason why the suggestion board is in public view is so that we can get various perceptions on add-ons or changes to the game. The initial typer of the suggestion is most likely not going to see the flaws in their ideas or know all the view points on it. Just because the first idea you've suggested wasn't readily excepted, doesn't mean all your ideas are obsolete. Don't be discouraged or disheartened by a first attempt. Try to see it the way the players on here see it. I am able to see where you're coming from about making the game all uniform and having standards. I just believe that with the younger players, it is more helpful to them to use the more common names like german shepherd than other variations. I don't see this post as ugliness. This post actually seems quite civil to me but I can understand that maybe you don't feel that way from lack of support for the idea.

As for my comment about mediocrity, I made that immediately after noting the number of spelling errors throughout the game. It has nothing to do with breed names and the F.C.I. If VirtualPups was serious about their product and image such errors would be exceptionally rare. They aren't, and despite a call for help in fixing those errors, only a handful of corrections were suggested, and none of those had been acted upon. That does indeed suggest that mediocrity is well-tolerated in the Virtual Pups community, as I had said.

I agree that the errors do need fix and that doing so, it will seem more professional. I have no clue if you are aware but just in case you're not, the game is in the process of switching hands. The new owners have done a lot to the game to improve purchasing dyes and fixing bugs and errors. I'm sure that they will eventually get to fixing the errors you pointed out but my guess is that they may be busy. I've never owned a site myself but I can imagine that they aren't just sitting around doing nothing. Errors that you had just posted needed time. I personally take offense to you saying the site tolerates mediocrity. Does that make me mediocre for playing and supporting the site?

But I am not one for offering constructive criticism without suggesting a fix (or fixes), so I've taken the liberty of suggesting spelling and grammar corrections in the "Reporting Bugs" section of the forum. We will see if VirtualPups is willing to up its game...

I'm sure some people will be grateful for you pointing these out because some players on here really focus in on grammar and spelling mistakes. I hope that these errors are fixed as well. I can only imagine how long you spent typing it all out.

Bumper sticker on my VirtualCar: "My PONs are smarter than your game ops"

I find this a statement that was really uncalled for. Out of all of your post, I am most upset about this. I find it disrespectful and degrading. I'm not saying this because they have more power than other players but I am saying this because they are people. I'm pretty sure the OPs don't have access to go in and fix errors or were the ones to originally make the mistakes. The post about the errors was made by an OP to help improve the game. Most of the OPs on here to an excellent job and as I long time player, I don't think they deserve that statement.

Kazuko · October 2010

This topic is completely civil. After all, I haven't posted yet. But since I'm TOTALLY ruining that right now... You say you've suffered a 'beat down'. You join this game, immediately begin to post on the forums about how we're IGNORANT North Americans for not following YOUR favorite breed standards. I know what a schaferhund is. I'm not an "ignorant" North American. But guess what, to be honest, that is 'useless information' to me. Stick me on a game show dedicated to dogs, and I'll refile it under 'slightly less useless information'. Until then, nah. I'm good. Do you expect a 13 year old from a country that speaks, in majority, English, to join a game that speaks, in FULL, English, and not freak out when they don't recognize ANY of the breeds here? Hell, I'd turn and leave the moment I saw Deutscher Schäferhund instead of the all familiar German Shepherd, and I KNOW what it is. This game has been around for over six years. We have a lot of members, some who have even played this game since it was released both beta AND alpha. It's ridiculous to expect the admin to take their time to revamp every. single. breed. because you want it to fit "international standards" that aren't even actually set in place yet! I like my common American names. I like being able to recognize breeds without having to gallavant around Google trying to find what it's BETTER known as so I can relate to it. And if that makes me ignorant, then ignorance is bliss. Because I'm a lot happier without THAT particular headache.

^Oriyana^ · October 2010

I personally find that many responses to suggestions tend to follow the tone of the original suggestion. It's not always what you say but how you say it. As for spelling errors, many have been around for awhile, and it's not that the game tolerates them, it's that ONE person is the only one who could/can fix them. Game ops have no access to the coding of the game. The original owner was finding her time stretched between many games she owns/runs and thus came to the decision to sell. The new owners only took over fairly recently, and even though there are two of them, I believe the coding is done mainly by one. They have been familiarizing themselves with the game code, fixing errors that more directly affected gameplay than spelling errors do, upgrading the forum, upgrading payment methods, fixing lag, fixing the ticket system so ops can handle player problems faster, improving the ability for ops to help out, planning fun events for the communtity... etc etc. So while spelling errors are annoying, I can fully understand why they may be lower on the list of priorities. As for breed names/standards I feel I've made my view clear about that. But perhaps a suggestion could be made to add alternate names on the breed info pages so that people may be informed of other names without changing the main names in game. And lastly, as for your virtual bumper sticker, I find that inappropriate, unnecessary and offensive. And that's all I have to say about that :P

Trianna · October 2010

Piotr_Pies wrote:

 Piotr_Pies Bumper sticker on my VirtualCar: "My PONs are smarter than your game ops"

You said you are suffering a "beat down" at the hands of other players over your suggestion, yet you seem to be the only one doing any attacking. Is it really worth insulting people who have done nothing to you because you (and only you, it seems) don't like the way something is spelled? I think you owe the Ops an apology.

Lonleycarrots · October 2010

For sure, to directly insult the ops like that? They do tons of work for us, you dont even know how much, and some of them have college, or kids or other stuff to take care of. Without them vp whould be horrible!

Aziu · October 2010

I've been reading through this topic for awhile now, and feel that my sentiments are being expressed in the notes other players are posting regarding the suggestion. The whole point of this section is for players to present ideas that will enhance the game, not just for one person, but for the community as a whole. If others are not excited about an idea, implementing it for one person wouldn't benefit the community. We look for things that enhance the playability for all and keep the game interesting. Just because something is a work in progress (as games such as this invariably are) does not automatically make it mediocre. As previously stated, we Ops do not have access to the code, and thus cannot assist in fixing up the errors; what we can do is organize player suggestions that have received positive community feedback and relay them to the owners. In short, it is unfair to fault us and publically insult us for something we do not have control over. An attitude such as that will not increase your standing amongst others.

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Conformance of breed names with F. C. I.

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