Different Opinions

Shibagirl · July 2010

This isn't meant to make people angry, it's just my opinion.. But... Well I don't quite believe in Caesar Millan's dog training advice and things.. For me it doesn't work. And it certainly does not work on certain breeds and show dogs especially. I have a Boston Terrier that used to be trained Caesar's way and she is now skittish and head-shy.. She was supposed to be a show dog.. I just had to put up with two people at my house telling me to train my dogs 'Caesar's Way'.. Pretty much forcing me.. Gah. Hate it when people try to force me to change my opinions.

Shibagirl · July 2010

Oh and dogs aren't the same as wolves.. They are now domestic. They may have some instincts and actions that are similar, but it's just like calling us monkeys. Just not the same thing anymore. Sorry to anyone who likes him, I am just voicing my opinion and venting.

Alabama · July 2010

Now I know if Khol sees this, she'll have an opinion, but for me, I don't think any one training technique is wrong or the best. Different dogs, different people and different situations require or benefit from different training. I tend to keep mostly big dogs and I enforce from puppyhood that I am the boss and they need to respect me and all humans. My fear being that when they get as heavy as me, if they don't respect me, or because I have a small daughter, if they don't respect her, we're going to have trouble. However, I would never go up to an adult dog I didn't raise and don't know and try those techniques on it, no matter how big or small it is. Because my dogs learn it young, there isn't much "physical" discipline necessary, which is what a lot of Cesar's training is. But then I don't use a lot of Victoria Stillwell's training either, just to name the other "big" television trainer. Each of my dogs has been trained in the way that best suites them. If a dog has been seriously motivated by food, I'll use it to train. If they do better with voice commands alone, that's what I use. Sometimes a dog has required, at least in my mind, physical discipline, though I've never hit one of my dogs outside of a light tap on the side or something to get their attention back on me. As long as the final outcome is that they understand me and listen to me anytime and anywhere, that's what matters to me. I do also though have a problem with people trying to tell me what is the best way to train. I'll listen, but if I don't think it'll work for me or my dog, just leave it at that please.

Shibagirl · July 2010

Yep, everyone's different and it's just stuff we have to live with. I agree with you on about everything there. I'm not big on Victoria Stillwell either, I prefer my own way. Thanks for reading!

RoyalRaccoon · July 2010

From my comment on Chibi's post

PrinceSushi wrote:

I'm not going to agree or disagree about Caesar Millan. He's just like any other dog trainer in my opinion. They(dog trainers) all have their own methods, and in no way in one method going to necessarily be the correct method for a certain dog or problem. Think of it like this - Do all humans learn the same way? No. Why should we expect dogs to?

I will add that I have tried out some of his methods with success. However, I don't agree with everything he says or does.

DiamondPuppy0809 · July 2010

No one should force you into training a dog the way you don't want to. I say whatever works for certain people\dogs is the way to go. I do use Cesar's methods because I notice a good difference in my dogs when I do. My dog-aggressive dog has gotten a lot better and doesn't act up as much anymore. My dog with barking problems doesn't act up as much anymore. My dog that had food aggression problems no longer has them. It works for me, so that's the way I do it. If it didn't work, there's no way I'd keep doing it or suggest it to other people. I've watched other training methods and I don't like some of them. My dogs don't like some of them. xD But, anyhow, everyone's got their own opinion and should train their dogs the way they like (as long as there's no abusing).

reina__ · July 2010

I've said this before and I've said it again, his show clearly states, "Do not attempt ANY of these techniques without consulting a professional trainer." And I agree! He uses techniques that he's learned throughout his entire life, and I guarantee you that the majority of people that use "Cesar's Way" have not been training dogs all their lives. If someone does "Cesar's Way" with their dog, the fault is with them and not Cesar. His "way" is several ways with different dogs, different breeds, different experiences and different things that stem from the misbehaviors. The majority of pet dogs will respond to only verbal discipline, but many people go too far and use the bite (or the whack on the nose which I do not condone) on a dog that is not hard-nerved enough and does not bounce back. Now, there are a FEW breeds that ignore verbal commands and require physical contact, but it is VERY adamant that one is experienced in WHY a dog is ignoring you, WHY a dog would need physical contact, and just how much to give... all the while staying completely confident and nonemotional. From what I've learned in my short 10 years of access to the Internet and research in dog training and training my own from a dominant-vicious dog to the dominant-kindly dog she is now, I've learned things. These things are that there is no one training technique for all dogs in the world. There is no end to all. There are some more violent training practices which are geared only towards high prey, high dominance, high fight -driven working dogs, there is the "replacement" training where an object is replaced, there is the "positive reinforcement", and more. For example my dog is hard-nerved, she "bounces back" after physical correction. I have enough experience with this and I know her enough to be able to do it, so I do it, but ONLY when I need to. The need arises if she shows dominance aggression towards somebody and won't back down (not often). When she doesn't listen to verbal discipline, she gets a bite. If she doesn't listen a bite, she gets either a pull up on the collar so her front feet are lifted up (some people think this is quite violent as it "chokes" the dog, but it is only for a few seconds) or a pull to the ground so she is forced to submit. The ground thing is an extreme and I rarely do it. **The choke thing. AGAIN, I do this with Keilah because I KNOW her and I know what she can and cannot take. Please don't make any rude comments on it because I know you do not know her and I could guess that 95% of the people on this forum don't have as dominant of a dog as Keilah is. A dominant dog that will not respond to verbal and then physical correction is just being... well.. dominant. That means someone has to take its place in the pack, and the way to do that is to teach the dog that yes, "I can take away your breath at any moment so you better respect me," (in a more dog-like fashion of course). MOST dogs will back off. The thing about this is that it does not teach the dog to FEAR you, only respect you. Dog psychology and human psychology is much different and I think people don't understand why I would choke my dog,... "it's cruel". No it's not. It's for less than 5 seconds, there is no physical harm done, only mental change. BUT!! You don't require physical contact to assert yourself as a dominant alpha leader. If you watch a couple dogs meet each other, you can immediately pick out the dominant one-- tail up, hackles up, ears forward, and upright posture. The others immediately recognize and will either do the same (dominance) or submit. That is dominance assertion. No physical contact involved. Having a large dominant dog, it is of UTMOST importance to be able to control it verbally AND physically AND mentally. Having a small dog that's unruly requires a bit more understanding and less substantiated touch and more mental contact, because I doubt the majority of problems in small dogs are from dominance ferocity and not some type of nervousness. Overall, Cesar Millan clearly is an experienced dog trainer, he understands dogs, and he does what he does right and without harm. I mean, dealing with unruly, nervous, dominant, ferocious, "red zone" dogs WILL have problems and risks, and not everything goes right. Cesar is JUST a person. He's not some voodoo-ist with magical dog "fixing" abilities. There is no end to all in training techniques. I wouldn't recommend the 5-second choking of a dog EVER unless it was a very driven dog unresponsive to medium-level disciplines and done by an experienced handler and trainer. AND, I wouldn't recommend using any of Cesar's techniques (except for of course the "balanced" state of mind, the extensive exercise) unless the person was, again, an experienced handler and trainer. I bought his book a few years back and bought a choke collar. Best thing I have ever bought for Keilah, period.

Shibagirl · July 2010

Yea, sorry for making this, the people who were at my house were just driving me up the wall! This vent should be geared more towards people like them who try to change opinions.. The thing is is that they believe that every dog can be treated the same way and have the same outcome, which certainly is not true. Luckily hopefully they learned this because my Boston does this thing at the glass door, like pretending she has a broken leg. My family doesn't care about it and just ignores it, and she only does it at our house so it's not a problem to us really. But to the people who stayed over it was a big problem. They tried the "SHHT" noise at her. Didn't work. (Not saying it doesn't work, just doesn't work on her.) Then they assertively flipped her over when she did it. That just made her scared of them, not of doing the action they dislike. THEN they went as far as biting my dog. That just crossed the line. I tried to let them know that I really didn't like that but they didn't listen. They left soon after and don't come over much anyways. The thing with them is, they have been training a dog for about 5 years, and before that dog they had past dogs all with serious aggression issues because they used no discipline actions on the dogs at all. One of the dogs actually tried to kill my old Newfie when I was little. Right in front of me. The only wrong discipline for most dogs is none at all. So they've pretty much only known how to train THEIR dogs for 5 years, and that's by watching Casear and not listening to the part where it says to "Consult a professional before attempting". Sorry to Caesar! That is if you can hear me!

reina__ · July 2010

Well, the shht thing prob doesn't work because there's no idea accompanied with it. If a dog got a bite and a shht consistently, and then a dog got a shht it would remember the poke and probably back off. Or a body block with the shht. Dogs don't automatically know what shht means, lol. But yeah, you will find in the dog training world everyone has their opinions and everyone's an expert. :roll:

55klovek · July 2010

NewfGirl wrote:

This isn't meant to make people angry, it's just my opinion.. But... Well I don't quite believe in Caesar Millan's dog training advice and things.. For me it doesn't work. And it certainly does not work on certain breeds and show dogs especially. I have a Boston Terrier that used to be trained Caesar's way and she is now skittish and head-shy.. She was supposed to be a show dog.. I just had to put up with two people at my house telling me to train my dogs 'Caesar's Way'.. Pretty much forcing me.. Gah. Hate it when people try to force me to change my opinions.

Why do they want you to train Ceasars Way? Any why is Your Boston Head Shy ?

Shibagirl · July 2010

55klovek wrote:

NewfGirl wrote:

This isn't meant to make people angry, it's just my opinion.. But... Well I don't quite believe in Caesar Millan's dog training advice and things.. For me it doesn't work. And it certainly does not work on certain breeds and show dogs especially. I have a Boston Terrier that used to be trained Caesar's way and she is now skittish and head-shy.. She was supposed to be a show dog.. I just had to put up with two people at my house telling me to train my dogs 'Caesar's Way'.. Pretty much forcing me.. Gah. Hate it when people try to force me to change my opinions.

 Why do they want you to train Ceasars Way? Any why is Your Boston Head Shy ?

They want everyone to, they believe it's the best for all dogs..

And she was treated as one of the "lower members of the pack" or what-not by her old owner, and usually held her muzzle and scared her by flipping her on her back. She prefers not to have her face touched now.. It just wasn't the right training technique for that particular dog.

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