Bad Dog!

ChibiWerewolf · July 2010

So, as I have been raving about I have been baby sitting my second and third favorite breeds of dogs. A Boston-terrier: Roxie, and a adorable chubby pug: Madison. Let me tell you my problem Roxie is such a sweet dog and she loves and trusts me very much even though I haven't known her all that long. She's the younger dog, and is easily able to steal attention from and elderly, chubby pug. And for some reason she always has to show what an alpha dog she is and be aggressive. Just a few minutes ago, we were eating dinner and Madison and Roxie came to sit by us and beg for scraps like they do, and out of no where Roxie lashes out and bites and chases Madison! Madison didn't even provoke her in anyway. We put Roxie in a separate room. I'm not sure how to exactly punish that, I'm used to dogs. I just went with the classic "No. Bad dog!" and put her away. She but her ears back and got really low to the ground, I'm sure if she had a tail it would have been in between her legs...(she has a nub.) Any help with dog discipline?

DiamondPuppy0809 · July 2010

Watch Caesar Millan, he's amazing.

My name is Madison. ^^ , hehe. Anyway, Caesar is absolutely amazing and for a situation like that I think you have to stay calm and, as Caesar does, give the dog a poke on the dog's side (right in front of their hip?) and say, firmly, "Shhhht!" Maybe even force Roxie to lay on her side on the ground, so she knows that YOU'RE boss, and you won't tolarate dominance like that? (Don't let her get up until you command her to). It's easier to watch than explain, so I suggest watching Caesar. (:

Shibagirl · July 2010

Garfieldz Gal wrote:

Watch Caesar Millan, he's amazing.

Sorry.. I disagree.. Some of his techniques just aren't good for some breeds, especially Bostons.. My Boston was treated like that and is actually VERY skittish now. Plus she was supposed to be a show dog so that completely ruined her. Also if I treated my Shibas with "Caesar's Way" they would in fact fight back. It's just their breed, and it's what I'd do too. These are domestic animals and you always have to keep that in mind. They may have descended from wolves and other wild dogs but they are not the same anymore, although some instincts and actions they do make are the same. I actually own a Boston that can be like that at times. They usually are over-protective of food. I think she did that because the Pug was begging for the food too, and the Boston just wanted it all for herself, like most Bostons do lol. I'm pretty good with Bostons, since I own one and have handled some in shows for people I know. My tip would be to put them in a separate room/outdoors while you are eating.

Alabama · July 2010

NewfGirl wrote:

 I think she did that because the Pug was begging for the food too, and the Boston just wanted it all for herself, like most Bostons do lol. I'm pretty good with Bostons, since I own one and have handled some in shows for people I know. My tip would be to put them in a separate room/outdoors while you are eating.

Agree with the food focusing causing the fight. Also agree they need to learn to not beg at the table or to expect food from the table, that would most likely end the snapping over that. One of the first things my dogs learn is to not beg for human food, not even to expect it or show they want it. They're allowed in the room, but not at, under or near the table or person eating and I better not catch them "watching" the food. I usually teach this just with a sound, kinda like an abrupt "AT" or "Ack" and pointing them somewhere else. If that doesn't work, I'll physically block/move them with my body (not pulling, just sort of making them move, like herding) into another room for a moment, then returning to the table. My dogs seemed to pick up on it after just a few times, though a reminder is needed sometimes, especially if the child drops food and they happen to be the one to find it later

You might also try arranging their evening food to be given right before you eat, that way they are full and may not be as interested in what you are eating. Making it easier to convince them to go lay down somewhere and take a nap.

Shibagirl · July 2010

Alabama wrote:

[ One of the first things my dogs learn is to not beg for human food, not even to expect it or show they want it. They're allowed in the room, but not at, under or near the table or person eating and I better not catch them "watching" the food. I usually teach this just with a sound, kinda like an abrupt "AT" or "Ack" and pointing them somewhere else. If that doesn't work, I'll physically block/move them with my body (not pulling, just sort of making them move, like herding) into another room for a moment, then returning to the table. My dogs seemed to pick up on it after just a few times, though a reminder is needed sometimes, especially if the child drops food and they happen to be the one to find it later You might also try arranging their evening food to be given right before you eat, that way they are full and may not be as interested in what you are eating. Making it easier to convince them to go lay down somewhere and take a nap.

[/quote] I totally agree, my Shibas learned that way, I just never worked much on my Boston though lol >.< So she just goes outside at dinnertime

RoyalRaccoon · July 2010

I'm not going to agree or disagree about Caesar Millan. He's just like any other dog trainer in my opinion. They(dog trainers) all have their own methods, and in no way in one method going to necessarily be the correct method for a certain dog or problem. Think of it like this - Do all humans learn the same way? No. Why should we expect dogs to? Anyways, I think the best solution is to just separate them since they aren't your dogs. Treating/correcting the problem isn't necessarily the best option when you can avoid it. For example, my male poms love to shred up paper. I'd much rather just keep paper off the floor than go through the long steps it takes to train them to leave it alone. I also agree with Alabama. Try feeding them, or walking them(to tire them out), before you eat.

Shibagirl · July 2010

I didn't mean like i totally disagree, sorry for making it sound like that

I mean it's just not good for certain dogs and certain breeds. Like PrinceSushi said, dogs are different like people. I just put it in the wrong words

reina__ · July 2010

Garfieldz Gal wrote:

Watch Caesar Millan, he's amazing. My name is Madison. ^^ , hehe. Anyway, Caesar is absolutely amazing and for a situation like that I think you have to stay calm and, as Caesar does, give the dog a poke on the dog's side (right in front of their hip?) and say, firmly, "Shhhht!" Maybe even force Roxie to lay on her side on the ground, so she knows that YOU'RE boss, and you won't tolarate dominance like that? (Don't let her get up until you command her to). It's easier to watch than explain, so I suggest watching Caesar. (:

I like Cesar too.. but note how they say "do not attempt any of these techniques without consulting a professional." I think he says "shht" because its neutral and doesn't really involve any angry emotion, another things dog either don't get or feel is weak, so they don't listen. I wouldn't always recommend the belly roll unless you know what you're doing and you're going to be consistent about it. They may "submit" for that little time but then the minute you don't correct the behavior they're going to believe that you were just kidding and not actually the leader. Usually behavioral issues stem from other things which have to be changed. If it's true dominance, begin to act like a pack leader. Dog cannot go on bed or couch, must be walked beside or behind you no questions askd, you must lead the way when you meet up with a dog, not the dog lead the way, you go first in hallways and down/up stairs, etc. Then you can begin to teach food respect. Agreed with Alabama. I have taught my dog not to touch or go near food that I have dropped. I started conditioning her to this by sitting in my yard with a bowl of chicken and dropping it beside me, and if the dog goes to eat it, I say no, and if she ignores, I poke. Usually around the base of the ear where it attaches to the neck. Do it to yourself. It doesn't hurt. Then I started dropping it further away from me still where the dog was within reach. It took only a few times for the dog to understand. Now, I can throw food and say "Uh!" if she goes to get it and she'll stop in her tracks. I don't allow my animals to watch me while I eat, especially my dog. She knows that now, and walks away when she sees me eating. My cat Pepsi does too.. and I'm training my other cat to now (she's VERY interested in people's dinner plates). Roxie sounds food dominant. A way to prevent that is to not eat around them, and do not let them in the dining room when you are eating. Crate em up during dinner to prevent it.. or change your lifestyle if the dog believes it should be dominant in your presence.

NewfGirl wrote:

I didn't mean like i totally disagree, sorry for making it sound like that I mean it's just not good for certain dogs and certain breeds. Like PrinceSushi said, dogs are different like people. I just put it in the wrong words

You are entitled to disagree and to your own opinion. You are right. His techniques are based on the breed he is working with, not on some law. It may appear that way but in one type of dog he may use the "bite" but in another dog something else. If you aren't a professional, I really don't recommend doing anything he does. He does it emotionless which not a lot of people can do.

ChibiWerewolf · July 2010

NewfGirl wrote:

Garfieldz Gal wrote:

Watch Caesar Millan, he's amazing.

 Sorry.. I disagree.. Some of his techniques just aren't good for some breeds, especially Bostons.. My Boston was treated like that and is actually VERY skittish now. Plus she was supposed to be a show dog so that completely ruined her. Also if I treated my Shibas with "Caesar's Way" they would in fact fight back. It's just their breed, and it's what I'd do too. These are domestic animals and you always have to keep that in mind. They may have descended from wolves and other wild dogs but they are not the same anymore, although some instincts and actions they do make are the same. I actually own a Boston that can be like that at times. They usually are over-protective of food. I think she did that because the Pug was begging for the food too, and the Boston just wanted it all for herself, like most Bostons do lol. I'm pretty good with Bostons, since I own one and have handled some in shows for people I know. My tip would be to put them in a separate room/outdoors while you are eating.

Glad to know you know what your talking about with the Boston breed. Roxie is a sweetheart, but is really greedy. I think I will keep them in separate rooms or something while we're eating because she won't sleep if she smells cooking food. xD

Alabama wrote:

Agree with the food focusing causing the fight. Also agree they need to learn to not beg at the table or to expect food from the table, that would most likely end the snapping over that. One of the first things my dogs learn is to not beg for human food, not even to expect it or show they want it. They're allowed in the room, but not at, under or near the table or person eating and I better not catch them "watching" the food. I usually teach this just with a sound, kinda like an abrupt "AT" or "Ack" and pointing them somewhere else. If that doesn't work, I'll physically block/move them with my body (not pulling, just sort of making them move, like herding) into another room for a moment, then returning to the table. My dogs seemed to pick up on it after just a few times, though a reminder is needed sometimes, especially if the child drops food and they happen to be the one to find it later You might also try arranging their evening food to be given right before you eat, that way they are full and may not be as interested in what you are eating. Making it easier to convince them to go lay down somewhere and take a nap.

Thank you Alabama! I've been doing to body block, because I find that really effective in getting them to move in a non-forceful way. After all, these aren't my dogs so I don't want to return them broken.

I've also noticed saying thinks with like you said an short "A" sound will get their attention or get them to move away. I think they'll get the message soon enough, they're really smart dogs. Madison goes outside and pretends to go to the bathroom so you'll bring her in.

reina__ · July 2010

NewfGirl wrote:

 Plus she was supposed to be a show dog so that completely ruined her.

Don't mean to hi jack, but how did it "ruin" her?

Shibagirl · July 2010

reina__ wrote:

NewfGirl wrote:

 Plus she was supposed to be a show dog so that completely ruined her. 

 Don't mean to hi jack, but how did it "ruin" her?

Well by that I mean ruined her potential for shows. She was supposed to be a show dog and was raised by someone else who used Caesar's ways the wrong way. When I got her and talked to the previous owner about her discipline she just told me that she thinks she did wrong training her, which she did for the breed. This breed doesn't do well handled too rough. The previous owner bought her as pick-of-the-litter from a breeder that handled her dogs in shows and were all champions before breeding and yaada yaada, basic breeding for AKC show dogs. I was going to handle the dog in shows for the previous owner, but she gave up and wanted to just dump her in the pound and I refused to let her. Just not the best techniques for the breed, that's all

Frostbight8 · July 2010

I think it was food aggression. I'd stop the begging first of all.. bad habbit to get into for dogs. Just ignore them when they beg. My dog does it all the time with my grandmothers dog when he visits. Since Roxie has to be the alpha dog... other dogs have to treat her like shes the alpha dog. And in the wild the alpha dog eats first, then the rest of the pack eats. I think thats what happend here. However, how you disicplined her was fine... thats what I do with my dog. Maybe to avoid this in the future put their scraps in their bowls instead of hand feeding.

danae11 · July 2010

Just my opinion but I would have her in another room if you're eating. Forget the dogs are pack animal/dominance theory and physical corrections tapping/poking/alpha rolling. It isn't about dominance. She's not an "alpha" dog alpha dogs don't assert their dominance through growling or being aggressive one of the few things CM has right in my opinion they're calm but the others listen to them. Bullies try to boss others around by growling or being aggressive. These aren't your dogs you don't have to train them just do not allow them in a situation where they're going to react like that set them up for success. If you have food the dog is out of the room. You shouldn't treat her as the "alpha" she's just a bully. Dogs don't have one set leader it's fluid it changes depending on the circumstances. My cocker is the leader in the house most of the time outside she listens to the mastiff cross without question. As I said just my opinion I don't agree with dominance theory and don't train my 5 dogs according to that

Frostbight8 · July 2010

I believe you misunderstood my theory. I do not encourage "treating" Roxie like the alpha. When we got my dog from the shelter she begged like crazy. My friend suggested ignoring her when she begged. So I did and it worked. I'm just throwing suggestions out there. I never said "I strongly recommend this".

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