Something to Stimulate the Economy?

BuffyBoarding · June 2010

So I'm sure most people have seen the vp economy going downhill lately... I have a suggestion that might help. Would like opinions before I talk to Ari and Nate about it. Most games delete their inactive accounts after so long so why not vp? Part 1: Deleting inactive kennels after 2 years or so? All they do is clog space on the server and store money that could be put to use in game. Part 2: Do a mass raffle/give away/vp games/etc. something with the money that is stored in inactive/suspended kennels. Not only would this free up server space but also stimulate the economy by putting money that was already in the game, back into the the game to be used/spent/whatever. Let me know what you think or if you have any other suggestions/improvements to this. -buffy

Jellybeanjoe · June 2010

Ok, just gonna give my opinions

1) Delete kennels? What happens if say, I get caught up in study at school? At university? I may be willing to lose the dogs I don't sell off, but what if I leave my kennel with millions of cash for when I decide to return. All my hard work, deleted. I know at least with the old server, and I'ld say with this new server as well, inactive kennels and dogs do not clog up space. Not a lot of space I should clarify. They don't contribute to lag - clicking contributes to lag, people don't tend to click lots of times on inactive kennels and dogs just sitting around

2) Take money OFF inactive kennels? Again, what happens if I decide to return from a long period of being inactive? All my hard money taken away and given to people just because they were active at a time in the game when I was unable to be? Ok, what if I was suspended - I still say no. My suspension might not be permanent. What happens if after a year I contact the game owners, talk to them privately and it is decided I can return to the game providing I follow the rules. Again, I would hope all my (legal) hard work would more or less still be there.

Yeah, the easy answer to people who the above may apply would be for them to log into their kennels once in a while. But when you're desperate to do well at University, logging into a game will not be at the top of your list. Or what happens if you hit financial difficulties and you have to go without luxeries for sometime. Or health/medical reasons come in the way. Or family problems. There's lots of reasons why someone may be unable to gain access to the net for extended periods of time. Games like VP are a luxury. One which may not be remembered until times are better - and if your suggestion above happened Buffy, then it is unfair to the players affected who may have put money, time and effort into the game.

Please don't take this personally

I'm all up for doing stuff for the community (scheming something now

), however I do not think taking money off and deleting inactive accounts is the way to stimulate an economy. Personally, I'm not sure whether adding money to the economy would do much help either, but I'm too tired to think of an argument for that at the moment >.<

BuffyBoarding · June 2010

I can definitely understand the "deleting of people's work" I just personally believe that after 2 years people most likely aren't coming back. Dogs are already taken away after 6 months and some people find it unfair that their "hard work" is given away... I've heard many people, ops included (Nef also believed it or rescue kennels wouldn't be out there) that it is not hard to have either yourself or someone you know log into your kennel within a 6 month period, so 2 years, I think would be a fair wait time. Yes people do have difficulties and life takes precedence over a game, but after 2 years I do not believe that Most people would come back for their money. I say most, because I'm sure some would. I have played many other games and used other websites that after so long, sometimes even 4-6 months, your account is deleted if it has not be accessed. This is the way most other websites operate and I have seen very few issues because of it. As for why I think money being put into play would stimulate things is simple. When people don't have money, they can't spend it. Sure some people are going to hoard their money and never spend it, constantly getting more, but most people aren't like that. When the economy is good, everyone's spending, prices are good etc.. But when most people don't have money, noone can spend it. Circulation of money is what stimulates any economy and if money isn't circulating, everything is at a standstill, much as it is now. Once again, I reinforce... Not trying to argue, just my point of view

PaperWings · June 2010

VHR used to be lag central, to the point we had sponsor time (meaning no novice accounts could log on). One of the suggestions was to remove old horses/accounts. To which Nef replied saying that it wouldn't help at all, since like Jelly said it is all to do with clicking that lags the site down. Training was one of the major problems with lag, hence the lack of a layout on the training page. It is just the raw information really, so it would mean less of a drag on the server. There are things in the works to improve speed on the server, but admin1 is a little busy getting married... But one of his big concerns is the code is being the main cause of the lag. This is one of Nef's original games, and coders tend to code things to their understanding. So basically is her own language! And admin1 will need to go through the code and potentially rewrite it to run smoother. But game play will still be the same, is just like writing something from French into English so the server understands better. With the money, I so don't want to see that coming into the game. If you've played VHR you'll know how a lot of money causing hell for the community. Players have reached billions, no joke. And personal breeds are going for about 1bil, and sponsors 300mil, dyes are around 50-100mil. This money has come from eventing mainly. If you want more money in the game, I guess you could suggest upping the purses in events, but you'll see it isn't a good idea in time. There is a massive devide between "poor" and "rich" communities on VHR, which isn't easy for a new player to jump into the game play if they've to spend the next year scraping the pennies together to get a sponsor (if they don't have rl$ to afford one). For them to get a head start in the game we point most of them in the direction of the art section since art/graphics is the easiest for novices to earn their keep. If things aren't selling it is because people are expecting too much in return, or maybe there generally isn't market for the items at the moment. People are hoarders, I will honestly admit I am one too. I have so many imports its stupid, but I don't want to sell them for that crazy moment I may want to import something lol. But I have thrown 300mil of mine out into the public willingly. I'd be very pissed if I went away for some crazy reason, just to come back to find all my stuff gone. That's like saying if you moved out your parent's house and went travelling for a couple of years or moved so far you are unable to go back and visit that they've cleared out everything of your's. Binning lots and redoing the room for their own needs, you'd be pretty pissed! Got to think of people that come and go, the rescuing is annoying as it is >.>

Jellybeanjoe · June 2010

I don't mind the idea of accounts being automatically deleted after a set period of time - however that needs to be made very clear at the start of the game. If such a feature was to be added to the game, then for the sake of people who own older accounts, I'ld prefer to see a warning at least 6 months (preferably more in my opinion) ahead of such a feature being implemented. I understand that most players when they leave the game, leave permanently. However there are those who leave and do return to the game years later. It's those people my concern is primarily for

I'll admit I'm not as active within the VP community as I'ld like to be - RL study has forced me to pick how active I am in certain games. As such I can't make any comments on sales of dogs on here. However if the VP economy is anything like VHR's in regards to goodie items (private breeds/sponsors/goodie dyes), so I mean there's very few being sold by players, then giving away money to players will only result in MASSIVE inflation. Unfortunately it is all about supply and demand. Limited sales of these goodies will result in people paying more. Giving away free money will mean people will be paying even more than they are now. Gotta hate it when RL ruins game play

-bows down to Paper-

Alabama · June 2010

I'm always for economy improvements, for things that make it easier for players to afford things with game cash. You know, I don't think I've ever played a game that didn't have economy problems LOL Games have problems with economy because usually, there aren't ways to take money OUT of the game. Players get more and more money and prices go up and up because players can afford them, so they go get more money and prices continue to go up. It really sucks for new players who haven't had a chance to get any of that money. Unlike real life, where it costs money to actually live, most game don't cost virtual cash in the same way. In real life, half to most of the money you earn will go to basic housing whereas in game, it maybe costs a fraction of a player's income to keep up with the necessities. When "extras" get priced too high, they stop being bought. In a depression, people generally don't have jobs, so they have no money, so they can't buy even the necessities, which means the people who depend on the jobs that create those necessities start losing their jobs, etc. So in real life, giving money away stimulates people into buying things, creating more jobs, putting more money in the economy, etc.. At least that's how it's supposed to work. That doesn't work in a game. The more free or cheap money put into the economy, the worse the economy gets because things cost more because more players can still afford them, meaning selling players gain more money, meaning the prices go up further. To reduce prices, there needs to be ways to remove money from the game. If players can't afford high prices they'll be dropped. I'd like to see some sort of "tax" put on selling and leasing dogs. Like a 5% tax. The higher the price of the dog, the more the player selling it is taxed and the more the player making money from the lease is taxed. At first, players will price the things higher to make up for the tax, meaning more money will be drained. But eventually, the prices will start coming back down. If the people with all the money start losing money because they spend more in taxes, prices on upgrades and dyes will also start coming back down because the laws of supply and demand will kick in. If players can't buy high priced upgrades, the prices come down. Because players who don't charge an arm and a leg for their dogs and services won't lose as much, it means they may be better able to afford them. To improve the economy, make things "cheaper" for the average player, money needs to be taken out. I'd also maybe like other options that cost playcash to get, such as being able to feature dogs for playcash as well as fame points. After all, anyone who can afford to can advertise better than just with how good their dogs are. Maybe be able to purchase advertising for an entire kennel, such as on the welcome page. Or even being able to purchase "bonuses" such as what VHR has that improve training or breeding.

Oliviakp · June 2010

Instead of all kennels which are inactive for over 2 years, or any other set amount of time, being deleted; couldn't there be a optional button for players to press if they don't want to play any more, which would delete their kennel?

Alabama · June 2010

Darkest Shadow wrote:

Instead of all kennels which are inactive for over 2 years, or any other set amount of time, being deleted; couldn't there be a optional button for players to press if they don't want to play any more, which would delete their kennel?

The only problem I see with this would be players would create new accounts, take the money off of them, then delete the account and any means we have of knowing where the money came from. Hit submit before I meant to.. But, expounding on this idea, I would mind a "vacation" feature that would freeze an account until the player decides to come back, and then the game being able to delete inactive accounts after a long period of time, like two years or something.

Alabama · June 2010

Sorry, meant to say "wouldn't mind a vacation feature"

lilly waters · June 2010

I actually really like the idea of deleting accounts. Most people who are gone for over 2 years have already forgotten about vp, and forgotten their password. Yes if they have the same e-mail they can still get it but, you cant get the username. I have had problems with this before, and so when they do come back they just make a new account, start afresh in the case they cant get into their accounts. You can use support but I have never had any help on that what so ever, my one support message had been escalted for 1 year before it was answered and then just kept racking up cause I was told nef had to do it. I like the vacation feature alot, I think that it would help with being able to delete kennels, as long as it was known to the vp community. I think that it should stop dogs from being rescued as well (although that could cause a bit of a problem), but for people who are scared their dogs are gonna go somewhere while they cant get on. As for using the money from the accounts, I think that it would be a good idea, but it would have to be just from the deleted accounts. Which works, and would seem to be just fine. Vp needs some new updates, we have been deprived for a long time and its nice to have someone who are actually looking at our suggestions, instead of us feeling like we arent being heard as a community. I think this would be a good update as long as some changes were made to the idea as far as the best for all of vp. As for taxing leases and selling dogs, this would cause quite a uproar. We already had a increase in that we pay for food when training, that causes quite a bit in a decrease when training mutiple dogs and turns but in any case we normally get the money back. Taxing things will cause a uproar like alot of thing in vp that have been like this. Maybe its a good thing, and maybe not a good thing, but taxing would hurt both the poor and the rich. The poor would become poorer, and wouldnt be able to do anything id they wanted their dogs trained. The rich would yes become poorer but would still get loads of money from other rich players and the poorer couldnt do anything about it. It would all be in the same situation as we were now.

Aziu · June 2010

I rather like the idea of taxation. A 5% tax is not huge - I know in my area we pay 7.5% in sales taxes in real life, and it's not a big deal. It would be a good way to sap small amounts of cash out of the system at a time. Almost like commission sales - think of it as VP (the game entity) is collecting a commission fee for us selling our items thru it. As long as you're still making a profit off the sale (which you would) you're not likely to get wretchedly poor. You can still "make a living" selling your dogs. I hate to say it, but pretty much any change made will cause an uproar. But if players want the economy stimulated, adding money so inflation skyrockets is not the answer. (And Bama, please, no bonuses! :P) *edit* To address the concern of the rich not getting "hurt" by the flat-rate tax as much as the poor, we could see about implementing tax brackets like there are in real life. Not a perfect system by any means, but that might level the playing field somewhat, if that's a real concern. (And you better watch out, next we'll be having everyone sumbit tax returns for their in-game activities! Mwaha!)

Alabama · June 2010

If the demand for something is great and people can afford it, the price will go higher. If the demand for a product is high and people can't afford it, the price will drop. More money = higher prices. If people can afford and are willing to pay more, prices go up. Giving money away will have exactly this effect. Less money = lower prices. When people can't afford high prices, prices come down. The taxes I propose would be based on price, so new players, putting dogs up on the market for $300 would pay about $15 at 5%.. Older player with decent dog, puts it on the market for $3 Million and pays about $150K. Old timer with top notch show dogs put one on the market for $30 Million and pays about 1.5Million in taxes. New player wants to get a dog trained, sends a lease for 30K and the trainer pays 1.5K in business tax, let's call it. If trainer wants to give the new player a break and trains for free or cheaply, then no or very little taxes paid. With this kind of tax setup, new players will actually not see many effects unless they are overpricing dogs and services. Yes, players with lots of money and lots of really nice dogs will see some major effects if they choose to sell dogs for really high prices or train for really high prices. Unfortunately, it's the older players who have the most to lose when selling or training for high prices, so will have the hardest time accepting something like this. The post was about stimulating the economy and the best way to stimulate the economy is to make prices drop, not put more money into the game. Putting more free money into the game only guarantees prices will go higher and higher. So to make things, especially for new players and players who don't make a ton of money, more affordable, from dogs on the market, to training, to upgrades and dyes bought with play cash is to decrease the amount of money in the game. What other ways could there be to take money out of the game? Special items that could be bought for playcash? Maybe ability to purchase a limited time "feature" when selling a dog? What about being able to "feature" your account on special page in the game? What about an ability to purchase "insurance" for your dogs so they can't be rescued if you leave the game for an extended time?

BuffyBoarding · June 2010

I definitely like the ideas of adding more game options, those that have been around for years need some new options to spice up game play. Taxing-- I'm not entirely sure on this one... I think that it would hurt the poor players and when the money is taken out of the game, what happens when money isn't being brought in? The only way money enters the game is events and new accounts, which isn't really all that much. About the "adding money makes higher prices" I'll have to both agree and disagree. Huge amounts of money at one time would increase prices, but if you say there is too much in game now, and you want to tax to take it out... Why are gifties that were selling for 10 million a month ago now selling for 1 mill at most? Maybe there's a decrease in people wanting gifties? Well training prices have also went down, so have the price of sponcers/dyes/imports. Everything is going down in price because noone is buying. Even as things are dropping tremendously in price, noone is buying them. I haven't seen anything that has gone up in price lately, there is supply but no real demand for anything right now. A few rich players are hoarding the money and there is little to go around for everyone else. Which is why I believe circulating more money would help the economy start circulating again. I'm not saying "Bring NEW money in" I'm saying use the money that was ingame already that has been left behind.

Jellybeanjoe · June 2010

Buffy wrote:

 I'm not saying "Bring NEW money in" I'm saying use the money that was ingame already that has been left behind.

Which is effectively bring new money in. Money sitting in inactive accounts obviously do nothing. Take the money from those accounts and inject back into the active community, it's effectively bringing new money in. Giving out money in RL has a different effect than giving out money in a game like VP. In RL people have to pay taxes, and other essentials to live. Yes, giving them money will help get a slow economy moving more, as the extra money will no doubt be used on special treats and of-the-moment-splurges, thus those luxeries will have at least, a short time boost. But to inject new money (wherever the source) into a economy where money is not removed in any significant way is only asking for inflation. It happened on VHR when event fees and prizes were raised. It'll happen in VP. With the new owners working of updates with you guys for the game, I'm hoping this will encourage people to play, and get enthusiastic about the game once again. More people, new features, new breeds, new events, that is the way to get the economy moving more.

Erra · June 2010

I have to wonder. If we think about VPC not as a number but as a large bowl of water, and every having differing amounts in their glasses, then adding more water overall won't really change the differing amounts in glasses - players with more money and more economic power will retain their place in the hierarchy. If gifties that once went for 10m are going for 1m now, perhaps that means that the value of VPC has gone up? I don't know, to be entirely honest. I don't really understand economics besides the basic "supply and demand" scenario lol.

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Something to Stimulate the Economy?

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