I find it selfish...

RoyalRaccoon · May 2010

...when people buy pets knowing they can't afford vet care, or when people just keep buying MORE pets when they can't afford vet care for one pet. I'm not trying to bag on people who don't take their pets in regularly to be checked out by a vet. After all, most people(including myself) don't go for yearly check ups with their doctor. That's fine. However, if you pet looks like it is about to die, or needs immediate medical attention(a broken leg for example) "I can't afford a vet" should have been something addressed before getting the animal. I mean the least anyone can do is have a suffering animal euthanized, which is much cheaper than some treatments. I know some people, and I don't know what they think, but to me animals just seem to be toys to them. They get one, and get all obsessed over it, but a few months later when the "wow" factor is gone they are getting some new animal. Problem is that once that "wow" factor is gone, and the animal is ill they throw out the whole "I can't afford a vet" or they keep using excuses not to go see a vet until the animal dies. How can anyone honestly say they love their pet, and allow that to happen? They need to stop buying animals if they can't even get vet treatment for the ones they own(and they own probably over a dozen!)! I just can't agree with that. Animals are commitments you love when they are healthy and ill. This isn't directed towards anyone here in the slightest sense, and I understand there are some situations and exceptions.

BuffyBoarding · May 2010

Wow, this is exactly what I was telling my best friend.. She goes down to the river, comes back with a chow puppy. She has no job, no house, nowhere she's allowed to keep it. So she leaves it with her boyfriend who has no house, no job, no way to feed it. Her excuse: It was cute. I ask, "Why would you ever get something that involves feeding and care when you can't afford your own food/care?" Her reply, "People bring kids into the world, that's what I'm about to do." Yeah she and her boyfriend are trying for a baby, their eighteen and nineteen. He has two children already and no job, still lives at home. They know they can't afford it and their excuse? "Stuff happens" UGH. Anyway, sorry to go off on my own rant in your vent post. But back on topic, I cannot understand why anyone would commit to an animal of any kind when they can't/won't afford care for it. It sickens me.

Hibachi · May 2010

Regular vet check ups aren't a big thing with me, unless the animal is suffering/dying. As long as the person can feed, water, provide shelter, etc. then I am fine - again, as long as the animal isn't dying. The last time my poodle went to the vet was when she was like 1 - if that. and she's 13 years old now, never been sick. She's just blind (which comes with old age) along with bad skin. My cat Simba hasn't been to the vet since he was like 10 weeks old, he's an outside cat to and he is seven, he also has never been sick, the only time something was wrong with him was when some idiot kid kicked him, but he was fine the next day. However, I do think that all baby animals (i.e. puppy, kitten, etc.) should go to the vet because of parasites, puppy parvo, etc. and they should have regular vet check ups until they have all their shots and/or altered. AND, money should be set aside in case of emergency. The last time I went to the doctor was when I was like 12. XD my grandma however brings her dog to the vet 1-2 times a year if not more, for check ups. I believe I read an article that says regular vet checkups aren't a necessity every year - I'll have to dig it up.

Hibachi · May 2010

Forgot to mention to, that "back in the day" they didn't have/couldn't afford vet care, I remember my dad telling me that he had a GSD/collie mix - it lived 16 years, was an outside dog it's whole life and ate table scraps. Never had any health problems. I think the way dogs are bred and cared for now makes them unstable for outdoor living.

RoyalRaccoon · May 2010

You don't have to apologize. I appreciate the story. Shows I'm not the only one meeting people like that. I dislike people that use excuses like "stuff happens." Yes, accidents can happen, but no matter what you are bound by your own choices. Adopting a puppy, and trying for kids when you can't afford to take care of yourself is not just "stuff happens."

BuffyBoarding · May 2010

Avla-- That's how my dogs are. My oldest is 14, he's been to the vet only when he was attacked by another dog (twice). In my own backyard the huge dog from across the street got into my yard and attacked him. Other than that, no medical issues, and he's fine. He gets his rabies vac from a traveling clinic in the walmart parking lot =P And no issues yet. The pup though has had quite a few vet visits for various issues >.< Sushi-- Exactly my point. I'm like really? Let a baby starve when you knew you couldn't take on the responsibility? So juvenile.

reina__ · May 2010

Well.. some people DO commit to a dog its entire life, but guess what, a LOT of crap can happen in that time and the "stuff that happens" within that time sometimes is a lot more important than getting $150 per 10 tablets of prednisolone for a borderline arthritic dog when it's 14. Not everyone who can't afford vet bills are selfish.

I mean yeah sure there are tons of people out there who are not WILLING, but I'm sure there's the same amount of people that just CAN'T, but would like to. I know I personally would have liked to get my dog on the best food possible, but I couldn't, still can't. But then there are people that know there's better food out there for them but still feed their dog "old boy" because they don't WANT to feed them better. See what I mean?

RoyalRaccoon · May 2010

I can already see people are taking this as me meaning routine vet visits, which is far from what I meant. I do not take most of my animals for routine vet visits, so it would be hypocritical of me to whine about that.

I'm not trying to bag on people who don't take their pets in regularly to be checked out by a vet. After all, most people(including myself) don't go for yearly check ups with their doctor. That's fine.

Avla - Regular vet(or doctor) visits are strictly an opinion. My vet would love that I get my dogs tested and treated for various things as often as every few months, but I can't afford that. It would cost thousands every few months if I did what my vet said, and that's not practical since, as you said, many animals can go with very few problems in their lives. If you can afford it, then good for you, but if you can't then stick to the basics. My main concern and the subject of my vent is when animals are visibly injured or ill, and receive no treatment(not even euthanasia) because the owner can't afford a vet.

Regular vet check ups aren't a big thing with me, unless the animal is suffering/dying. As long as the person can feed, water, provide shelter, etc. then I am fine - again, as long as the animal isn't dying.

However, I do think that all baby animals (i.e. puppy, kitten, etc.) should go to the vet because of parasites, puppy parvo, etc. and they should have regular vet check ups until they have all their shots and/or altered. AND, money should be set aside in case of emergency.

This is basically how I feel with a few exceptions(different types of animals, different types of care). reina__- I'm not talking about routine vet visits, top brand food, etc. I'm talking about strictly the basics; more importantly vet care when the animal is obviously ill or injured(ex. broken bones, infected wounds, rapid weight loss, unusual blood, etc). Of course everyone wants better things for their pets, but I can't equate top quality dog food vs. generic brand to vet treatment for ill/injured animals vs. no treatment at all. Yes, stuff does happen but we are run by our own choices, and to continue owning an animal you can't afford to keep happy and healthy is a choice. I got one of my dragons from a family that knew they just couldn't afford it anymore, and their situation was not helping to make it any easier. Though it was a hard choice for them to make to re-home her, it was a smart and selfless one since Mango wasn't healthy at all when I got her. In my opinion, I witnessed an amazing act of love when they turned her over to me, because they easily could have pulled out "I can't afford a vet" until she died(mostly likely a month or 2 later), but they knew that it she deserved something better than 1-2 months of hell and then death.

Hibachi · May 2010

Oh, alright it was just a miss understanding.

What bugs me though is when people go out and purchase a dog and AFTER they have the dog they start saving up for it to be altered. And who knows how long that would take saving up. I've heard so many people say I was saving up to get her/him fixed but it decided to run across the yard to get to that female or a male got in our yard. It's still no excuse you should be prepared before purchasing a dog, especially with the possibility of bringing more lives into this world when there are thousands and thousands of animals dying shelters.

Goldy · May 2010

I totally get where you're coming from. When I purchased my puppy when I moved out I already knew I had a place to keep her. (This is Mayday I'm speaking of) and I had a little under 4k saved up. I knew the house I was moving in would be stable and I wouldn't have to randomly move out, and I had a stable job as well. I could afford to pay for all her shots and check ups, which gets expensive, I don't think people understand that... Anyways, point being when I got a dog I thought it through and knew I was going to be spending more than just the initial purchase of the puppy, which was not cheap, either. If someone can't afford basic health care for an animal (at least to be put down) then they should just get a goldfish >.> A dog is a big responsibility and can be very expensive, people just think they're going to get a puppy and it's going to stay small and adorable, and never cost them money. Ignorance is soo ridiculous. Another thing; I don't feed my dog science diet, or anything that high end. I feed Pedigree, and now Beneful puppy food mixed in. It's right around 20 dollars for 40 pounds of food. I don't spend tons of money on "natural treats" either, they get milk bones, rawhide and greenies for their breath. I get all their supplies at Wal-mart, minus the 300.00 I spent on very high end grooming clippers. I invested in a nice pair because I know that cockers' fur will never stop growing and will need constant attention, their entire lives. The guy next door got a poodle, and I finally offered to shave his dog because he didn't -know- that poodle's fur grows continously. You should have seen how matted and disgusting this dog's fur was. I was like, really? Get on google and spend five minutes reading up on a breed before you dramatically decide to get one - is it that hard? It seriously would of taken five minutes to get the basics. Uggh.

RoyalRaccoon · May 2010

Avla - It's ok. Some people put off sterilization for various reasons(personal views, to encourage growth, health, etc). My peke is not yet spayed(even though I can afford it 10 times over) because we've heard sterilizing them as puppy can cause their coats to grow in thin. As you said though, we've had the money saved up(on top of paying for the expensive unaltered licensing) since the day she was given to us just in case some other dog got into our yard and she needed to be spayed asap. She'll be spayed in summer though, because she's over a year now(even though it will probably still affect her coat a little). I think your dog accidentally getting pregnant would constitute "emergency" vet care in my book. I'm sure many dogs have gone full term because the owner wasn't prepared to have their dogs altered. Paranoid Thoughts - That's very true. The initial price is just the beginning, which some people fail to realize in all types of animals. lol, goldfish can be expensive too! I swear I spent so much money just getting the tank and everything set up when I owned them. I alternate between various cheap dog food brands. Pedigree(what they are currently eating), Kibbles and Bits, and some store brands...maybe others that I can't remember atm. All are between $12-$20 a bag. I thought about Blue Buffalo once, but it was $40 a bag! I own 3 dogs, there is no way I could afford, or justify $40 a bag when I've had dogs live past their life expectancy on the "cheap" stuff. For treats I give various things. Rawhide sticks are always good for calming them down, but at night they've been getting half a piece of these treats called Meatie Bones. I don't remember where we originally got them, but when we ran out we picked some up at Walmart a week ago. My older pom also loves fruit as treats, and since the neighbors have grape and berry bushes growing into our yard he goes crazy during their seasons! We really need some nice clippers. Every summer we've tried to shave my older pom the clippers die on his undercoat so we have to run out and buy new ones while he runs around half shaved for an an hour or less. What brand do you have?

Hibachi · May 2010

I can understand reasons such as for showing, health, etc. but, keeping an intact dog away from other intact dogs is the responsibility of the owner. I don't have a problem with it as long as the owner takes the proper precautions and already has the money in hand, as you said, for emergency spaying if need be. Unless the person is a breeder/shower there is no reason for a dog to stay intact. Unless it's a life threatening situation, which I've only heard of this if the dog is too old. Another thing that goes along with altering that gets on my nerves is the now "designer breeds" are advertised as "real" breeds, I've seen them go for sale for thousands.

RoyalRaccoon · May 2010

Avla wrote:

I can understand reasons such as for showing, health, etc. but, keeping an intact dog away from other intact dogs is the responsibility of the owner. I don't have a problem with it as long as the owner takes the proper precautions and already has the money in hand, as you said, for emergency spaying if need be. Unless the person is a breeder/shower there is no reason for a dog to stay intact. Unless it's a life threatening situation, which I've only heard of this if the dog is too old. Another thing that goes along with altering that gets on my nerves is the now "designer breeds" are advertised as "real" breeds, I've seen them go for sale for thousands.

We're very careful. Our other dogs are both neutered, and we keep an eye on our fence(they are all small dogs, so it only takes a small hole for them to squeeze through). The life threatening thing can also apply to flat face dogs that are prone to breathing problems. Just one more concern I have with her. I've been told they can have lots of problems when put under anesthesia. When the time comes and the vet looks her over, if there is a significant chance of complications(she's extremely flat faced/old standard) I'd rather keep her intact and continue to pay the high fees for her license. I don't agree with selling designer breeds for high prices, but I don't disagree with creating them. All breeds came about because someone wanted some type of trait or traits. Essentially that's whats being done with designer breeds. However, until they get a lot more generations going where everything starts breeding true, they will just be mutts/mixes to me.

FlyTM · May 2010

That gets to me as well,I don't see why people would do such things >.< they don't think about how the animal just them half the time... Buying a Great Dane when you live in apartment?? Having no money to feed the pet thats >.< just ugh... should never put an animal through that. Yet I'm not one to talk most my cats have never been to the vets unless to get fixed thats all (not all are fixed not everyone has money, it costs alot I must say...) same with my dog. I have the cash to feed them tho. Also what gets to me is when animals get to an old age and are ready to die but people stuff them with meds and pills and that, =S to have them going on even when their bodys are failing. (off topic.)

RoyalRaccoon · May 2010

tbone wrote:

That gets to me as well,I don't see why people would do such things >.< they don't think about how the animal just them half the time... Buying a Great Dane when you live in apartment?? Having no money to feed the pet thats >.< just ugh... should never put an animal through that. Yet I'm not one to talk most my cats have never been to the vets unless to get fixed thats all (not all are fixed not everyone has money, it costs alot I must say...) same with my dog. I have the cash to feed them tho. Also what gets to me is when animals get to an old age and are ready to die but people stuff them with meds and pills and that, =S to have them going on even when their bodys are failing. (off topic.)

I've actually heard great danes can adapt to apartment life with daily walks well. Their size is deceiving. It's more about what it takes to mentally and physically stimulate them, than it is about size. I get your point though. If you own outdoor cats I highly recommend getting them altered. I've seen and nursed too many beaten up toms, and I've seen to many unwanted kittens die or turn into strays, which just further adds to the problem. I don't mean to offend anyone, but having unaltered outdoor cats is very irresponsible. As for old animals, I have to respectively disagree. Back to the topic, it's fine to me(not that my opinion accounts for much) if you can't take them to the vet to be checked routinely, all I hope for in pet owners is responsibility when the animal is ill or injured(and of course the basics like food, water, shelter).

Erra · May 2010

As for old animals, I feel that if they are in pain and their quality of life is suffering, then prolonging that suffering does technically qualify as abuse, right? If it's just old and having a hard time getting around but is still happy and has a good quality of life, it's different story. It's tricky subject, honestly.

Hibachi · May 2010

Great Danes do no require much running around, they can live in an apartment. They are pretty lazy dogs. Taking them on regular walks each day will be enough to satisfy their need for exercise. The only thing about them living in a small space is they can easily knock things over.

RoyalRaccoon · May 2010

Xaetian wrote:

As for old animals, I feel that if they are in pain and their quality of life is suffering, then prolonging that suffering does technically qualify as abuse, right? If it's just old and having a hard time getting around but is still happy and has a good quality of life, it's different story. It's tricky subject, honestly.

It is tricky and very personal to each person. That's why I had to disagree because I can not say yes or no in either direction. It would have to be judged individually(per animal) almost every time.

reina__ · May 2010

Avla wrote:

Great Danes do no require much running around, they can live in an apartment. They are pretty lazy dogs. Taking them on regular walks each day will be enough to satisfy their need for exercise. The only thing about them living in a small space is they can easily knock things over.

Are you sure about that? Mine is one of the most energetic dogs I've ever laid my eyes upon (not in her old years but when she was younger) and 3eagles has one, and he is definitely not lazy. She has to walk him like 3+ times a day because he's so energetic. I suppose if you're willing to get out for a few hours everyday a Dane could live in an apartment... although I probably wouldn't want to live next to you because of their bark.

Hibachi · May 2010

reina__ wrote:

Avla wrote:

Great Danes do no require much running around, they can live in an apartment. They are pretty lazy dogs. Taking them on regular walks each day will be enough to satisfy their need for exercise. The only thing about them living in a small space is they can easily knock things over.

 Are you sure about that? Mine is one of the most energetic dogs I've ever laid my eyes upon (not in her old years but when she was younger) and 3eagles has one, and he is definitely not lazy. She has to walk him like 3+ times a day because he's so energetic. I suppose if you're willing to get out for a few hours everyday a Dane could live in an apartment... although I probably wouldn't want to live next to you because of their bark.

XD Isn't your a mix breed though? I always known them to be a couch potato, just a little clumsy though. I guess it depends on the dog itself, but I plan to live on a large piece of property before I own any.

reina__ · May 2010

Yeah she's a mix, but I'm thinking that she's not half and half, because she was from an actual 'Labradane' breeder and who knows. Her mannerisms, temperament, even movement is exactly like a Great Dane. The only thing that's Labby about her are her feet, coat, and tail thickness.. lol.

reina__ · May 2010

And maybe her muzzle.

Hibachi · May 2010

Interesting. I didn't even know labordanes existed. xD Do they live longer than a dane itself?

FlyTM · May 2010

PrinceSushi wrote:

tbone wrote:

 Yet I'm not one to talk most my cats have never been to the vets unless to get fixed thats all (not all are fixed not everyone has money, it costs alot I must say...) same with my dog. I have the cash to feed them tho. 

 If you own outdoor cats I highly recommend getting them altered. I've seen and nursed too many beaten up toms, and I've seen to many unwanted kittens die or turn into strays, which just further adds to the problem. I don't mean to offend anyone, but having unaltered outdoor cats is very irresponsible.

Easyer said than done they say, but yeah I have outdoor cats that are not fixed, I found nothing yet has bad to come but like only 3 out of 6 are not fixed =S. Its half the time because of money... like most people, tho they are cared for >.>. I know what you are getting at tho, my cats came from under a pub... wild little things they where xD, but now always wanting to be given a pat xD.

reina__ · May 2010

Avla wrote:

Interesting. I didn't even know labordanes existed. xD Do they live longer than a dane itself?

Well.. more than some. Some Danes I've seen have lived up til like 4 and then they're gone, and some into their teenage years. Keilah's basically 12 right now. Over the past few weeks I've noticed her deteriorating more and more.

Erra · May 2010

I don't think alone time in a backyard constitutes good exercise anyway, so I think you can have any breed in an apartment as long as you're prepared for what you're getting into. The problem is that most people seem to get dogs based on looks and not so much base on the breed needs... *eyes the influx of huskies into shelters after those disney movies*

reina__ · May 2010

Quite true. I don't think Avla wants Danes purely because of their looks, though. I'm sure for dogs like Chihuahuas a walk around the yard on leash, depending on the size of the yard..lol, would suffice. Maybe not. The Chi I know won't even go outside in the winter so all the exercise he gets/wants is indoors. BUT, a Great Dane on the other hand, although they lounge around quite easily, in general they're not the most lazy dog ever. They're what used to be a working dog. Laziest dog is probably.. a cat. I don't know. As long as ppl are willing to be on a tight schedule and take the dog out certain times for certain amount of time, I'm sure apartment life would be okay. Just my 2 cents.

Hibachi · May 2010

I defiantly don't want a Great Dane based on looks (I've loved them since I saw them and have been studying them for quite a while now, as well as other dog breeds), and I don't plan on getting any while living in an apartment. And by large piece of property I don't mean a backyard - I meant a few acres.

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