It Shouldn't Be Allowed.

ChibiWerewolf · May 2010

Tracing, recoloring and selling. It shouldn't be allowed as a sellable thing on Virtualpups. It's art theft, if the image isn't stated as royalty-free and you take it anyway to color on digitally, it's stealing. I'm not a fan of re-coloring and I don't consider it art, but it isn't wrong unless your : stealing copyrighted images or selling it. It isn't fair at all that people like me and other hard working artists who have spent our whole lives working and trying to perfect what we do, just to see someone sell a photograph that they colored over. It really doesn't matter how long it took you to color over a photo, you should redirect that time and energy to learning anatomy and developing an art style. Oh? Is it hard? Welcome to my world. I don't mind coloring over a picture if you are doing it for free, or for yourself (as long as the image is royalty-free of coarse) but if your selling it, it's wrong because that person could have just as easily looked up a photo of what they wanted and gotten the SAME EXACT THING, only with out the messy coloring and with out having it saved with .jpg quality! That, is one more thing to add to my list of things I absolutely cannot stand.

Alabama · May 2010

Technically, if someone is tracing, they should provide the original, along with the permissions to sell the item. Mods/Ops never mind getting a private report of someone tracing without giving proper credit, however, we need to see the original. We can't condemn without proof

Art theft is against the rules on VP. We don't have time to try and track down every piece of art for sale to see if it's original or not and neither do we want to go around accusing everyone of tracing/selling art that's not theirs to sell. Chances are, even if we did ask, the people who knowingly sell art that's not theirs, will lie. Which is why we need a link to the original. Neither do we want members of our community flamed publicly for tracing someone else's work or recoloring it when they do have permission to do so. We can determine privately if they have permission and if they do not, will receive the points for art theft. Too many points and they will no longer be allowed to be members of our forum.

ChibiWerewolf · May 2010

Alabama wrote:

Technically, if someone is tracing, they should provide the original, along with the permissions to sell the item. Mods/Ops never mind getting a private report of someone tracing without giving proper credit, however, we need to see the original. We can't condemn without proof Art theft is against the rules on VP. We don't have time to try and track down every piece of art for sale to see if it's original or not and neither do we want to go around accusing everyone of tracing/selling art that's not theirs to sell. Chances are, even if we did ask, the people who knowingly sell art that's not theirs, will lie. Which is why we need a link to the original. Neither do we want members of our community flamed publicly for tracing someone else's work or recoloring it when they do have permission to do so. We can determine privately if they have permission and if they do not, will receive the points for art theft. Too many points and they will no longer be allowed to be members of our forum.

Of coarse. It is wrong to publicly accuse someone of something your not 100% sure of, I wouldn't do that. xD I have been seeing thing like that around, but I don't have the time to track down every single thing I think is a traced piece, neither would you. xD Things like line art that is available is perfectly fine. But if they were claiming it was 100% original, that of coarse would be stealing. As for people buying things that were royalty free images that are colored on that's beyond me. Does that make sense? xD Thank you Alabama.

RoyalRaccoon · May 2010

I completely agree. Actually, I couldn't care less if someone was tracing photos for free or practices, but tracing and then passing it off as their own for money doesn't sit well with me.

Garnet · May 2010

Okay, so when I'm drawing, I somtimes pull up a picture of - lets say im drawing a doberman - I sometimes pull up a picture of a doberman on the internet to make sure im getting the ears and body shape right. Would that be considered tracing or stealing art? 0.0 Like not actually tracing it off the screen or anything, but just looking at it to make sure I get the angles and things right.

Alabama · May 2010

Garnet wrote:

Okay, so when I'm drawing, I somtimes pull up a picture of - lets say im drawing a doberman - I sometimes pull up a picture of a doberman on the internet to make sure im getting the ears and body shape right. Would that be considered tracing or stealing art? 0.0 Like not actually tracing it off the screen or anything, but just looking at it to make sure I get the angles and things right.

Using pictures for reference, which seems to be what you're doing isn't theft, though you should still credit the original(s) when you post the picture. The problem comes though when your animal looks just like the reference. Whether you free hand or not, if the majority of the lines match the original, it's considered theft.

ChibiWerewolf · May 2010

PrinceSushi wrote:

I completely agree. Actually, I couldn't care less if someone was tracing photos for free or practices, but tracing and then passing it off as their own for money doesn't sit well with me.

Exactly, I wouldn't mind practice or keeping it to yourself if your trying to improve but if your passing it off as 'art' and attempting to make money off of it and selling it to someone unsuspecting (even though I can pretty much tell traced art when I see it, someone else may not be able too, who knows?) I consider it very wrong.

Garnet wrote:

Okay, so when I'm drawing, I somtimes pull up a picture of - lets say im drawing a doberman - I sometimes pull up a picture of a doberman on the internet to make sure im getting the ears and body shape right. Would that be considered tracing or stealing art? 0.0 Like not actually tracing it off the screen or anything, but just looking at it to make sure I get the angles and things right.

No, that sounds like referencing, it's good for any anatomy help you need. 'Bama pretty much summed it up for you so I have nothing else much to say. But she is very right

Alabama wrote:

if the majority of the lines match the original, it's considered theft.

That's it entirely.

tarnish · May 2010

Garnet wrote:

Okay, so when I'm drawing, I somtimes pull up a picture of - lets say im drawing a doberman - I sometimes pull up a picture of a doberman on the internet to make sure im getting the ears and body shape right. Would that be considered tracing or stealing art? 0.0 Like not actually tracing it off the screen or anything, but just looking at it to make sure I get the angles and things right.

Tracing is putting a sheet of paper or layer (on a program) and following the lines exactly. You drew the lines yourself without following the original to a tee. You are prefectly fine and what you did is acceptable in the art community

Ref pictures are important to improving, like what Chibi said. ^-^

ChibiWerewolf · May 2010

tarnish wrote:

Garnet wrote:

Okay, so when I'm drawing, I somtimes pull up a picture of - lets say im drawing a doberman - I sometimes pull up a picture of a doberman on the internet to make sure im getting the ears and body shape right. Would that be considered tracing or stealing art? 0.0 Like not actually tracing it off the screen or anything, but just looking at it to make sure I get the angles and things right.

 Tracing is putting a sheet of paper or layer (on a program) and following the lines exactly. You drew the lines yourself without following the original to a tee. You are prefectly fine and what you did is acceptable in the art community Ref pictures are important to improving, like what Chibi said. ^-^

Thank you for your input Tarn! Cx

tarnish · May 2010

Haha, yep! I think tracing is ok for practice sakes if you keep it to yourself (for maybe getting an idea of general shapes) but they should stay private and not be sold or go up on websites.

Garnet · May 2010

Okay, phew.. I was worried that using them as a reference was theft as well xD Thank you guys

CallyKats Dachshunds · May 2010

alright...I'm just a tad confused.. so I'm in GIMp, right? I open up a blank image (White background) I open up the royalty free image I'm using to ref on another layer I start drawing while the ref image is at 0% opacy (can't see it) with it the size of what I actually want mine to be. I don't trace it, but it usually ends up close to the same size (I make it big, coz I naturally draw bigger than small) and the lines are rather similar. what do you consider that? I occasionally bring the ref up to look at and reference from, but it's not up when I'm actually drawing. I don't see it as tracing or stealing since I only use rf and don't actually trace (I may make general shapes for difficult places though) so..what would that be considered? o.O

Alabama · May 2010

If your art looks almost exactly like the original, it would be considered theft. A reference is something you use to say get an idea how the ear connects to the skull or how a paw might look folded in a "point" position. You might use a reference to determine the markings on a dog, ie what Dalmatian spots look like or where the brown on a Doberman goes. Or you might use one to get an idea of how the back curves on a dog that is curled up in sleep. But it's best to not even download the pictures, just pull them up and glance at them, then go back to drawing. Using one picture to reference an entire drawing can be looking for trouble. If it looks close enough to the original to be recognized as the other artist's work, it may be investigated and if a good number of the lines match up, it'll be considered theft.

CallyKats Dachshunds · May 2010

so..it's theft even if the image is royalty free and used as the only reference for pose and shape?

Alabama · May 2010

Royalty free usually mean you don't have to pay to use it. It doesn't necessarily mean you can profit from it. The pictures are still copyrighted and as such, you need permission to profit from them or to use in any way not specified by the owner of the original. This is the site that's linked in the Terms of Service <a href="http://www.whatiscopyright.org/"; target="_blank" class="bb-url">http://www.whatiscopyright.org/</a> ;

"Free" web graphics, stock photography and linking images. Graphic images provided by "free" or "linkware" graphics sites and stock photography are not public domain. These images, although provided to you for free or a fee, are not being given to you in ownership. You are being allowed to use them if you comply with the owner's terms and conditions, so make sure that you comply with them in full when you use or display the works in question. If the owner says "don't alter it", don't alter it. If the owner says, "only use for your personal homepage," only use it for your personal homepage. The same applies to linking images or logos. They are still copyrighted by the owner and are usually only to be used for links to the owner's web site. Again, in these cases the ï¿½ symbol at the bottom of your web site only pertains to the content that you yourself created, not to the graphics, stock photography or logos provided to you for use. --From the above link

As said before, if it's used just as reference, as long as it doesn't look very much like the original, you're probably alright, even though if questioned, you will need to provide proof that you can use it in the manner you are. Most stock photos allow for private use, meaning if you make a banner for yourself or give it to a friend, or using to practice/as a reference, it's most likely alright. Beyond that, you need to make sure it's part of the original artist/photographer's conditions of use or get permission to use it like you want.

RoyalRaccoon · May 2010

femalevamp14 wrote:

so..it's theft even if the image is royalty free and used as the only reference for pose and shape?

Theft would be taking without permission, gaining profit without permission, tracing without permission, etc. Referencing a pose from a photo is not normally considered theft, because you can't generally copyright a pose(only an image entirely), but you should still be able to credit the photo if asked. Many artist reference from photos or real life, including myself. However, it's pushing it to have the image in the same file(on a different layer), because you will be too tempted to trace or line up things perfectly, when you probably wouldn't be able to do that had it not be in a lower/higher layer. Use guidelines, grids, eyeballing, etc. For example, lets say I wanted to ref this pose:<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/sheepbackcabin/4129491889/in/photostream/"; target="_blank" class="bb-url">Click</a> Here are my guidelines of important points and a grid of the image:<a href="http://i42.tinypic.com/3qywn.png"; target="_blank" class="bb-url">Click</a> Guidelines can easily help you determine where something should be without tracing. The first green line for example shows that it goes straight through the left eye, but only touches the bottom of the right eye, or the red line on the chin touches the top of the right shoulder, but goes through the left shoulder. Copy over ONLY your guide lines(which should be on a separate layer) and try to match points up as you draw. Using a grid is best for drawing out your basic shapes(circle, rectangle, triangle, etc), not for getting the image perfect. I guess you could use both if you wanted, but I generally just eyeball the shapes, and use guidelines if I find the pose tricky. Don't be afraid to reference. It's a valuable tool for artists. My best suggestions are to avoid using paintings as a ref(even though I hypothetically did above), never try to make the image a perfect match(let your own personal style shine through), credit whenever asked, and if possible always reference from your own photos or photos made specifically for modification or referencing.

CallyKats Dachshunds · May 2010

PrinceSushi wrote:

femalevamp14 wrote:

so..it's theft even if the image is royalty free and used as the only reference for pose and shape?

 Theft would be taking without permission, gaining profit without permission, tracing without permission, etc. Referencing a pose from a photo is not normally considered theft, because you can't generally copyright a pose(only an image entirely), but you should still be able to credit the photo if asked. Many artist reference from photos or real life, including myself. However, it's pushing it to have the image in the same file(on a different layer), because you will be too tempted to trace or line up things perfectly, when you probably wouldn't be able to do that had it not be in a lower/higher layer. Use guidelines, grids, eyeballing, etc. For example, lets say I wanted to ref this pose:<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/sheepbackcabin/4129491889/in/photostream/"; target="_blank" class="bb-url">Click</a> Here are my guidelines of important points and a grid of the image:<a href="http://i42.tinypic.com/3qywn.png"; target="_blank" class="bb-url">Click</a> Guidelines can easily help you determine where something should be without tracing. The first green line for example shows that it goes straight through the left eye, but only touches the bottom of the right eye, or the red line on the chin touches the top of the right shoulder, but goes through the left shoulder. Copy over ONLY your guide lines(which should be on a separate layer) and try to match points up as you draw. Using a grid is best for drawing out your basic shapes(circle, rectangle, triangle, etc), not for getting the image perfect. I guess you could use both if you wanted, but I generally just eyeball the shapes, and use guidelines if I find the pose tricky. Don't be afraid to reference. It's a valuable tool for artists. My best suggestions are to avoid using paintings as a ref(even though I hypothetically did above), never try to make the image a perfect match(let your own personal style shine through), credit whenever asked, and if possible always reference from your own photos or photos made specifically for modification or referencing.

Okay..so I don't think that I'm actually stealing with what I'm doing. ;-; I'll just keep the image off the file thingy then.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. (:

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It Shouldn't Be Allowed.

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