How EVERYTHING is animal cruelty O.O

reina__ · April 2009

I love dogs, cats, animals, whatever, but I will tell you this -- I am NOT an animal activist. I stand for health and prosperity of animals, sure, but never will I risk a human's life or a human's feelings for an animal's feelings. This is just my opinion and you don't have to agree, I'm not forcing anyone on this. BUT, I was on a site the other day watching a litter of Rottweiler puppies in the basement on an old cement floor. They were perfectly chubby and shiny and looked great. It WAS a backyard-type breeding but he spayed the female after the litter was weaned, but he wanted the best for the litter and not for himself. I scrolled down to the forms and EVERYONE was like, "You irresponsible *rude words*... blah blah blah... this is cruel! You should be putting them on rug not cement! Go to *nevermind...* blah ...." Like, no joke. They were on cement. Great. Cruelty? What IS cruelty? I don't think people know the definition of cruelty anymore. They think putting a puppy on cement to play is cruel. Or how about killing a cow so someone can have a hamburger? If they kill it the way they are SUPPOSED to (shock with electricity, which in fact does NOT hurt) and then bled out (which also does not hurt, just makes them tired, and they eventually die), it wouldn't be cruelty. How else would you kill it for human consumption? Euthanasia gets into muscles, bones, organs, since it goes through the blood to the heart. Nope. Gun - gun powder, plus they often need to be shot a couple times which is even worse than bleeding out. APPARENTLY, according to PETA (man they piss me off), milking cows is cruelty. They wanted Hagen Daaz to replace their dairy milk with human milk (yes, you heard me right), because then it would put less strain on the cows. I know that a cow needs to have a calf first before she can produce milk, and most people think that calf will be killed if it is a male. More often than not, he will be sold as either a beef cow or a steer for stud at an auction. Cruelty: A willingness to cause pain; indifference. --I'm sure being slashed in the throat doesn't feel good, but it sure as heck isn't felt when they are in nervous shock. That is the way slaughtering is supposed to go down. Whatever. When people get rid of the shocking and just do it to the cow, that's when it gets a little iffy. Not sure if the cow actually feels pain, like, excruciating pain, but it should only take about 2 minutes to bleed out 40% of the blood where it finally passes out and dies. Not the same as the white dog eating somewhere in Asia, where the dogs are actually tortured - now THAT is animal cruelty. No bones about it. You see people putting their English Bulldogs in pink sweaters and putting red lipstick and pink nailpolish on them -- I'd say that is way more inhumane than putting a muzzle on them (jeez, people.) These were working dogs before people became obsessed with treating animals like children. Animals eat their poo. They lick pee on trees. They protect their family because it is their territory and pack. Their feet are for walking - be it on sand, gravel, or old cement! Their ears might get bitten off by boars -- might as well crop or amputate sterilely before it actually happens. They bite because it is a dominant behavior. They are jealous because it is a dominant behavior--wanting to be "superior" over another. It is easily fixed by dominance exercises, physical exercise, and training. Animals are creatures of habit. As are we. We dock Cane Corso tails to continue some weird tradition. When it's done the way its SUPPOSED to be done, and at an early age like 1-2 days, 3 maximum, it doesn't hurt. The nerves haven't fully developed in the tail. The temperament of the dog doesn't change if it has a stub or a real tail. The pro is that it won't get broken. All I'm trying to say is, dogs are just animals and follow their instincts. They couldn't care less if every person on earth hated you. If you pointed a gun to their head they wouldn't cower away, they would lick it. Put antifreeze in their waterbowl and they drink it. Honestly. But when people are seriously trying to hurt the animal and cause them pain, that is cruelty. Surgical operations are done under certified veterinary experience. As far as I know, vets love animals and wouldn't perform a surgery that was painful even if it meant big bucks.

Pandalove · April 2009

I wouldn't say I'm an animal activist, but I love animals more than I could love any person, -or equal to my family- having a puppy on cement isn't considered cruelty, as long as they are kept warm and being fed. Personally, I don't think dogs and other creatures are "just animals", they have feelings and they feel pain, just like we do. A dog knows when they are in trouble, they can sense things that we cannot, why do you think they risk thier lives in police work? Or just to save their owners lives? Peta is some of the worse hypocriates, they spend most of their money on ads, and fighting, than ACTUALLY doing something to help animals. I have been a vegiterian for well over 4 years, and I think just by doing small things like that actually helps more, rather than doing protest. I could care less what my family, my boyfriend, my friends eat. That's their desicion. As for the milk thing, I DO get organic milk, due to the are injected with hormones, and it is very unhealthy, chocolate milk isn't what you think it is.

And depending on where the calf is born, it is usually taken away from it's mother, auctioned off, and sold when it is only a few days or weeks old, when they shouldn't be weaned until around 6 months of age. :roll:

reina__ · April 2009

Yeah I know dogs know when they're in trouble... I didn't say they were stupid nor did I say they do not feel pain. Working dogs are trained to do what they were trained to do. They don't know they're risking their lives. They're just doing something out of habit.

AlmaLacey · April 2009

Peta Kills Animals - <a href="http://petakillsanimals.com/"; target="_blank" class="bb-url">http://petakillsanimals.com/</a> *If this isn't allowed please delete * EDITED

Pandalove · April 2009

You can't believe everything you read on the internet.

AlmaLacey · April 2009

You can't fight pictures and what not.. peta is a lie. I have asked Peta Reps before - they just walk away

Pandalove · April 2009

Yeah, they are all hypocrites!

AlmaLacey · April 2009

if you scroll down on the peta kills pages it shows the death van...that made me cry. I believe that people are overly concerned and it makes me mad Petsmart doesn't sell mice or snakes b/c they think it is inhumane. Snakes have to eat and they eat mice in the wild. Its not right. they would rather have the snakes die... I may not feed my snake live mice but he still eats mice.

reina__ · April 2009

They probably kill them because there simply is not enough homes to go around. If every home in the world had a dog or two there would still be some left over. When you're unconscious, you don't know that you're unconscious. Same with being dead.

Pandalove · April 2009

I don't go to Petsmart rarely anymore, they are like a puppy mill, and the animals are overly stressed during all the movement. :|

reina__ · April 2009

What about hamsters? Is there a hamster mill somewhere? How come people aren't concerned aboutt he hamsters?

Pandalove · April 2009

That's what I was saying by 'puppy mill'

They over breed every animal they sell, I have seen birds who have mange in thier stores. :shock:

AlmaLacey · April 2009

yea - I understand but even my city pound saves more animals than peta

Pandalove · April 2009

Yeah, I really think pet stores such as, Petsmart, Petco, etc. Should rescue animals, rather than breed them contiunusly. When there are animals out there who really NEED homes.

AlmaLacey · April 2009

My petco takes in animals - thats how I got my snake.. They take them in and give them free. I'm gotten lizards, snakes, rats, and all other animals

Pandalove · April 2009

Yeah, our Petco supports animal shelters and has a dog adoption day on Saturdays, ehich is good.

iluvdogs111 · April 2009

A few years ago I wouldn't eat meat and got worked up at a lot of stuff-like snakes eating mice. Well, I still love animals, and care about them a lot, but I'm not a vegetarien, and I know that animals eating other animals is just nature. About the petstores- I rarely go to petsmart as I have heard some rumors about it. Petco isn't as bad. They take in some animals and don't have dogs in their store-they ask people to adopt them from a shelter instead. I don't know a lot about peta-but I do know that I don't like kill shelters. I know sometimes it is neccasary, but honestly the animals don't do anything. It's not their fault they're ina shelter. Every animal deserves a chance to find a loving home of their own before their death. I don't know, that's just my opinion. :?

AlmaLacey · April 2009

thank you. Petco is amazing. I am there everyday - My petco cares about animals. Really, Everything they do is for the animals. Which makes me happy.

Kazuko · April 2009

I apologize in advance for the length of this post. It is the Junior Research Paper I did on Animal Rights recently. =p It sums up my thoughts and feelings on this subject. xD Animal rights, a touchy subject even in the modern world, have been questioned as early as the 1600's by philosophers and Puritans alike. For example, have you ever eaten a hamburger, or sat on a leather sofa? Do you know someone with diabetes who requires insulin in order to live? Most animal rights advocates would condemn you or your diabetic friend for such malicious attacks towards your beast brethren! Insulin contains animal by-products, and many activists feel that it is wrong to use animals for food, clothing, entertainment, or medical reasons. "...they agree that animals should no longer be regarded as property...but should instead be viewed as legal persons and members of the moral community." ((Wikipedia)) This is a misconception that has taken many an unsuspecting patron down a dangerous, and in some cases psychotic, path. Think about it; would humans have survived thousands of years ago without using animals that gave food, warmth, and much needed companionship? We are taking the theory of animal rights much too far. Of course, it is true that animals should not be abused, and we definitely should not cause an animal more pain than we ourselves would endure, nor force a task upon them that we would be unwilling to take upon ourselves. However, when heinous acts such as buildings being broken into, research laboratories firebombed, families threatened, and individuals attacked over the controversy of animal rights, one question must be asked: How far can activists take it before it is recognized as going too far? "We have reports and files with law enforcement across America where the animal's rights extremists are on record threatening to kill my children on the way to school because we eat pheasant," states rock star Ted Nugent while being interviewed for a television show ((Penn & Teller)). Personally, I have had family members look at me in disgust because I participate in anatomy-class dissections and friends stop associating with me because I don't mind sitting on a leather sofa. People need to stop, smell the smoldering roses, and realize just how violent the animal rights debate has become. Most animal rights activists, such as the group P.E.T.A, feel animals should have the same rights as people. "...Well, with rights there come responsibilities. Even if we gave animals rights, they'd end up in animal prison! Right away! For assaulting and killing people, or each other, not paying taxes..." states Penn ((Penn & Teller)). While it's a nice thought to treat animals just like people, is it really a good idea? After all, although all humans are scientifically animals, all animals are not scientifically humans, and they don't have the same thought process as humans. For example, while most people with morals won't take food or property from their neighbors, dogs will hardly think twice about snagging the kibble or toys from another. Based on this, it is hard to even begin to compare animals to people, let alone treat as if they were our siblings. To give animals equal rights so freely is idealistic, to say the least, when it took so much fighting and hardship to give the same equivalent treatment to African-Americans and women. Why should animals get equal human rights, when not even humans have those same rights! One major thing most rights activists for animals want to do away with is medical testing and research. Common misconceptions are that the animals treated badly, contained in small cages, and are otherwise generally abused, however, that's not quite true. ((<a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2a/Dogs6CCcopy.jpg"; target="_blank" class="bb-url">See Figure A</a>)) "...researchers are required to consult with the institution's veterinarian.â€

Pandalove · April 2009

Agreed! Animals should NOT be treated as they where humans, animal activist are just silly, like you stated about 'animal prison', animals cannot provide for themselves, -domesticated animals- they need our care, a dog can't just get up and poor itself a bowl of water. Animals are like babies, -even when they are adults- they require constant looking after, and feeding, exsercies, etc.

DiamondPuppy0809 · April 2009

iluvdogs111 wrote:

Every animal deserves a chance to find a loving home of their own before their death.

Yes, every animal deserves to have a chance at finding a home before they are put down. Buuut, you have to admit that they do get that chance in a pound! Pounds are around to help stray/unwanted pets, and they only put down when they actually need to. Like when a dog has been there for too long and no one's taken any interest in him/her. Then they normally put the dog down so he/she doesn't spend the rest of his/her life in a pound. (Plus, the dogs that are unable to be adopted or haven't gotten any interest from anyone take up space for new stray/unwanted dogs to come in). No-kill shelters are great, sure. But they always need more donations and a heck of a lot more room than in a regular pound that puts animals down. I give thumbs up for all caring, responsible animal pounds.

saved09 · April 2009

APPARENTLY, according to PETA (man they piss me off), milking cows is cruelty. They wanted Hagen Daaz to replace their dairy milk with human milk (yes, you heard me right), because then it would put less strain on the cows. I know that a cow needs to have a calf first before she can produce milk, and most people think that calf will be killed if it is a male. More often than not, he will be sold as either a beef cow or a steer for stud at an auction.

Yes. I live on a farm, and there is a girl at my school that has decided that raising a dairy cow is cruel because they are forcibly impregnated and then the fetus is killed and I was like Okay. However, there are multiple problems with her statement. 1. It hurts dairy cows not to milk them because they overlactate. 2. Cows are impregnated in order for them to lactate. 3. The calves are not aborted, they are born and left on their mothers until they have the digestive enzyme in their system and then bottle fed while the mother's are milked. 4. They are not constantly bred. You can make a dairy cow lactate for over a year before they have to be bred again. So yeah People that criticize things without thinking about it irritate me.

Berton · April 2009

saved09 wrote:

APPARENTLY, according to PETA (man they piss me off), milking cows is cruelty. They wanted Hagen Daaz to replace their dairy milk with human milk (yes, you heard me right), because then it would put less strain on the cows. I know that a cow needs to have a calf first before she can produce milk, and most people think that calf will be killed if it is a male. More often than not, he will be sold as either a beef cow or a steer for stud at an auction.

 Yes. I live on a farm, and there is a girl at my school that has decided that raising a dairy cow is cruel because they are forcibly impregnated and then the fetus is killed and I was like Okay. However, there are multiple problems with her statement. 1. It hurts dairy cows not to milk them because they overlactate. 2. Cows are impregnated in order for them to lactate. 3. The calves are not aborted, they are born and left on their mothers until they have the digestive enzyme in their system and then bottle fed while the mother's are milked. 4. They are not constantly bred. You can make a dairy cow lactate for over a year before they have to be bred again. So yeah People that criticize things without thinking about it irritate me.

So true so true

Pandalove wrote:

 And depending on where the calf is born, it is usually taken away from it's mother, auctioned off, and sold when it is only a few days or weeks old, when they shouldn't be weaned until around 6 months of age. :roll:

I've lived on a farm my whole life calves around here are weaned when the reach a certian weight and height its not done by age... Jane was born in March and is now getting weaned. Jane will grow up to be a happy and healthy cow. and when she reachs two will have her own happy healthy calves I cant think of a time we have ever weaned a calf at 6 months. Now my own little statement. Most dairies here will sale there cows after trying to breed them for a year and all the breedings are unsuccesful. We've had to get rid of 3 of my cows for that reason. and my dads big baby. We will also get rid of them if they are sick and have no chance of pulling back.* Mummy calves has been another reason for getting rid of them. (its hard to explain what a mummy calf is.) PETA scares the crap outta me. Some girl came up to one of my show cows went around in front of her well she was being milked. (The way the fair is set up is kinda confusing I may draw a map thing later) So well my cow is being milked she starts petting her and saying "Dont you want to be free, you wont have to be tortured by having your udder yanked on all day long. You wont have to have babies..." I had to go up to the girl and ask her to leave, She had her hand on the halter to when I went up there <.<

AlmaLacey · April 2009

sick.

saved09 · April 2009

Mummy calves are no bueno man, but i can't explain it either, besides its not a pretty site. It just bugs me when people start harping on every person that owns animals for human consumption without thinking. Half of them drink milk every day, and have called a hamburger their favorite food. I very rarely see a true vegetarian anymore. Then there are the pig lovers that don't know where bacon, ham, and pork come from...That's a whole different story...

rohesia · April 2009

First off. I do consider myself an animal activist. I have been vegetarian for over 8 years, and vegan for nearly 3 now. There are a lot of things I don't agree with, such as the methods that are used in the slaughter of animals raised for consumption, etc, however it must also be said, that I do not condemn omnivorous people in any way, as it is written into human DNA to consume meat. It is why people have canine teeth, as well as flat grinding teeth, it is why blood needs iron to be healthy. It must also be said that not all animal activists are activism extremists. I would never consider breaking into somewhere, threatening another person, or anything of the sort, and the majority of animal activists are not like that either. Unfortunately the select few who are like that tend to shape peoples' perspectives on animal activists. I am a partial supporter of PeTA Yes, every story has two sides, and you most certainly cannot believe everything you hear or see, because anything can be misquoted, photoshopped, or video edited. On the milder side of PeTA, they are to be congratulated. This organisation will send information, gifts, and recipes to those wishing to convert to vegetarianism. They are often recognizing people as helpful or heroes to animals for much less than kidnapping test subjects, bombing places, or taking an undercover video diary. It is absolutely ridiculous I will admit, the fact that they take paint, and in some occasions, real blood, and throw it on companies that advocate animal mistreatment or slaughter, but again, that is a small handful of individuals who take part in such actions. I am NOT a supporter in any way of ALF For more than just the fact that if you are on three or more mailing lists you are considered a terrorist. ALF is violent, and takes things to levels that should not be reached at all. They do not stop to think that in the firebombing of laboratories, places of residence, etc, that the animals they are so passionately advocating for will undoubtedly be harmed in the process, as well as the Human populous of the place they are destroying. Greenpeace is another known terrorist organization I do however support it to a degree. I occasionally take part in protests when such things are deemed quite important in my eyes. The definition of animal cruelty is rather vague and overblown nowadays. People take the issue seriously, which is to be congratulated, but in the event that one finds themselves considering theft, kidnap, murder, or other acts of (criminal)violence, rationality needs to be reassessed. As for the dairy discussion also going on in this thread, my opinion tends to vary. As long as the dairy farm in question is not overbreeding, overmilking, or keeping the byproducts of the dairy industry as vealcalves, I have no qualms. Veal is however something I strongly detest. It never was made so clear to me the amount of cruelty involved until I had the misfortune, or in some ways, fortune of finding a nearly-dead veal calf abandoned near the side of a road and left for dead, and of course taking the dear thing home to raise. This was around six or seven years ago, and while I was quite young, the overwhelming sense of hatred that filled me was a frightening thing to me.

AlmaLacey · April 2009

Honestly My bestie is a Vegan and was with peta for a very long time. After she saw and heard stuff going around she left and joined petakillsanimals.com I have pictures as proof and it is sick. I hate peta - strongly. She donated most of her pictures to the website its self.

Pandalove · May 2009

Garfieldz Gal wrote:

iluvdogs111 wrote:

Every animal deserves a chance to find a loving home of their own before their death.

 Yes, every animal deserves to have a chance at finding a home before they are put down. Buuut, you have to admit that they do get that chance in a pound! Pounds are around to help stray/unwanted pets, and they only put down when they actually need to. Like when a dog has been there for too long and no one's taken any interest in him/her. Then they normally put the dog down so he/she doesn't spend the rest of his/her life in a pound. (Plus, the dogs that are unable to be adopted or haven't gotten any interest from anyone take up space for new stray/unwanted dogs to come in). No-kill shelters are great, sure. But they always need more donations and a heck of a lot more room than in a regular pound that puts animals down. I give thumbs up for all caring, responsible animal pounds.

I actually live near a KILL shelter, well, my neighbor had gotten some kittens from there, -and planned to get the rest, the next day- well, she went there the next day and found they had put the remaning litter of kittens to sleep, they had only been there a few days, and if they where still alive they would have a loving home, with there brother and sister at her home. So, I would have to disagree. some animals that have only been there a FEW days get put to sleep, which is sad, -considering they could have a home right now- I believe if the animal is suffering or coming to an end in it's life, THEN it should be put to sleep, -only to end it's pain- I do refer people to kill shelters, only because those animals need homes the most.

NuTsRidgebacks · May 2009

reina__ wrote:

They couldn't care less if every person on earth hated you. If you pointed a gun to their head they wouldn't cower away, they would lick it. Put antifreeze in their waterbowl and they drink it. Honestly.

If you replace the word 'dog' with '6 month old baby', the same statement would be true but that doesn't mean a baby isn't capable of feeling emotions-it just hasn't learned most of them yet. Animals having emotions is up for debate, but if you don't think dogs are capable of emotion then you probably a. don't have a dog or b. don't have a bond with dogs in your household. Researching a subject via the internet means you are knowledgable on a subject, but without hands on experience, you can't fully understand any topic. I wouldn't call myself an animal activist either-I eat chicken daily, would kill a mouse if I found one in my home, dislike some breeds of dogs based on appearance-but I am against say, wiping out a species for the sake of building a mall or something similar. And the thing is, humans domesticated certian animals for our own needs, thus making them nearly incapable of living in the wild. Shelters are full because humans let their animals breed, humans drop animals off on the side of the road when they don't want them anymore. A lot of people depend on animals when humans fail them. Guide dogs, therapy dogs, police dogs. The majority of therapy dogs are mutts-they've been bred with no specific purpose, yet they learn to give life to people with disorders. Humans are a self destructive species. Arrogant as well. The majority of the things that go wrong in this world are due to humans. We take what we want when we want it, because who can stop us? Still, we are what we are, animals. People that kill over possesions are just more in touch w/their animal instincts I guess, and it's essentially population control. I could write a ton more but my shift at work is almost over :P

Jazz · May 2009

Nutty McQuackedOut wrote:

I wouldn't call myself an animal activist either-I eat chicken daily, would kill a mouse if I found one in my home, dislike some breeds of dogs based on appearance-but I am against say, wiping out a species for the sake of building a mall or something similar. And the thing is, humans domesticated certian animals for our own needs, thus making them nearly incapable of living in the wild. Shelters are full because humans let their animals breed, humans drop animals off on the side of the road when they don't want them anymore.

Amen.

Pandalove · May 2009

I agree Nutty! Except, I could never kill a creature, because it has a purpose in life just like us, I would rather capture it and set it free.

And by the way Reina, my dog knows when people dislike me, -it's a long story- but, every time she sees that specific kid, she goes chasing after him. Which is hilarious becuase she's a poodle.

Howdy, Stranger!

How EVERYTHING is animal cruelty O.O

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